Dori2o v HFC ***won***

[dori2o]

I have, still..., a HP agreement with HFC for a DVD player I bought in December 2002 for a total amount, including 4 year insurance of £233, which was suposed to be cleared over 4 year at a rate of £8 per month. (I was young and naiive).

 

I have missed a few payments and been charged for them (which I intend to claim back), but after receiving a statement I requested from them last week, which shows all payments, interest, PPI etc, they claim there is still a balance of £110.

 

Also, they sent me a settlement figure.......£206

 

So I have added together all the payments I have made and it comes to £373.

 

Now bear in mind that £8 x 12 x 4 = £384

 

Therefore I should owe £11.

 

As I say I have missed some payments, but I have also made extra payments to cover these.

 

They have charged me £90 in late payment fees, which I'm going to reclaim, and a £50 default fee, which I'm not sure if is claimable (Anyone?)

 

This is £140, so even if they are added to the £384, less what I have paid, is still less than £206 ( £384 + £140 = £524 - £373 = £151)

 

They also say that unless I start to pay them £10 per month to clear the balance, they will file another default.

 

I'm not sure this is right, and I don't want to pay them more than i think I owe (£11).

 

They have said, following my request tonight, albeit over the phone, that they wil send me a copy of my origional credit agreement, as they are also charging me PPI, which I don't think I asked for, but the CA will confirm that.

 

What do I do? (Apart from claiming the charges back)

[dori2o]

bumpety bump

[Boobaby]

bumpety bump

 

Please forgive my naivety but what does bumpety bump mean?

Thanks

Boo

[Bigmac versus]

Sounds like the balance is made up of charges and that you have been defaulted for this. Inform them you are disputing the amount they claim is due and that no further payments will be made until you have your charges returned and off course your default removed.

[chezt]

Please forgive my naivety but what does bumpety bump mean?

Thanks

Boo

 

Bump means 'Bring Up My Post' so that's wot the OP was doing to bring the post back to the top of the list in a bid to get a response ... it obviously worked!

[dori2o]

Right then.

 

I have done a spreadsheet which, unlike their statemtns, shows all payments paid, intrest charged and PPI charged (still not sure I requested this). I get an amount due of £187.43, and I've checked the spreadsheet 3 times it is correct.

 

Anyhoo, I was thinking of writing and making the following offer.

 

They cancel the charges that have been imposed, this brings the balance down to £47.43. and I will make a full and final settlement payment of £20.

 

Also I will advise that if they refuse I will start court proceedings to claim back the charges plus intrest. (obviously I will send an LBA first just to give them the 28 days)

 

What do you think?

[MARTIN3030]

A default cannot be registered twice.

It can be re-registered by the new owner of the debt if the debt is sold.

[dori2o]

thank you for that, something else I can get them with.

[kippy2]

hfc are just like ge money! cowboys the worst ones! dont get me started!!! just go and get them errrgh

[dori2o]

OK, here's my letter, please feel free to amend as required.

 

Dear Sirs,

 

I have received the statements you sent to me and although they are misleading, have managed to decipher them.

 

I have also received your settlement figure, and I must advise that I do not agree the amount.

 

Enclosed with this letter is a spreadsheet I have created based on the information on the statements you provided me with. I am sure you will find that this is all correct.

 

As you can see, the total balance as of 16/12/06 is £187.43.

 

However, £140 of this balance is made up of charges that have been applied to the account.

 

I now understand that the regime of fees which you have been applying to my account in relation to late fees and Default charges, are unlawful at Common Law, Statute and recent Consumer regulations.

 

I would draw your attention to the terms of the contract which you agreed to at the time that I opened my account. It is an implied term of that contract that you would conduct yourselves lawfully and in a manner which complies with UK law.

 

I am frankly shocked that you have operated my account in this way as I had always reposed confidence in your integrity and expertise as my fiduciary.

 

As previously stated I calculate that you have charged an amount of £140 on the account.

 

What I require.

 

I require the cancellation of all charges on this account. This will leave a balance on the account, based on the statement details I hold, of £47.43.

 

One this request has been satisfied, I shall make a payment of £20, in full and final settlement of this agreement.

 

If you do not comply fully within 14 days, I shall begin a claim against you for the full amount of charges levied plus interest , plus my costs, without further notice.

 

Yours faithfully,

Any thoughts?

[dori2o]

Bump

[dori2o]

UPDATE:

 

Sent the letter above to them on 16th January, hadn't heard anything so on Friday I caled them, they claimed they hadn't received the letter, but it was sent recorded, suddenly the letter was noted on the record.

 

I asked if anything had been done in respect to the letter and was told that they are under no obligation to respond. They do not agree that the account is in dispute, and unless the next payment is made, on time, they will start court proceedings against me to colect the balance.

 

I simply told the guy, thats fine, but I will meet any claim with a counter claim for the refund of the charges.

 

Is this correct?

[JonCris]

send this NOW by Special Delivery (not recorded) then you can track it. It will get you started.

 

Also before you do anything more you should spend some time reading the FAQ's

 

Their address

Consumer Credit Act 1974 s77 (1) Demand

Their Ref:

Your address:

Dear Sir/Madam Account number************

I require you to supply the following documentation before I will correspond further on this matter.

 

1. You must supply me with a true copy of the alleged agreement you refer to. This is my right under your obligation to supply a copy of the agreement under the legislation contained within the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (s.77 (1) (fixed sum credit) - your obligation also extends to providing a statement of account.

I enclose a £1 postal order in payment of the statutory fee, PO Serial Number ********.

 

2. You are notified that you are obliged to supply these documents, whether you are the original creditor or not under S189 of the CCA 1974.

 

3. Non-compliance with my request is a criminal offence under the above Act subject to a fine of £2,500 and/or 6 months imprisoment and will result in a report being submitted to the relevant statutory authorities.

 

4. As you should also be aware, a credit agreement that is not properly documented and signed by the customer is totally unenforceable under the CCA and therefore is a complete defence to any court claim that is issued.

 

5. Furthermore you are reminded that under s78 sub section (6) whilst the default continues you are not entitled to enforce the agreement in law

Yours faithfully

Name

[dori2o]

I already have a copy of the origional agreement that they sent to me and it is complete.

 

My claim is for the cancelation of the charges on the account, the origional balance due to be paid was £382 (i.e. 8 X 48) I have now paid £373, they claim there is a balance outstanding of £207, this is almost all charges. I want these removed and will then settle the account.

 

They have said that I cannot dictate to them when an account is in dispute, and if they do not receive payment of £10 on 05/02/07 they will commence a claim in the courts (which I doubt, they will probably send to a DCA first).

 

Is this right, can they send the agreement to a DCA, or commence court proceedings if I have written to them to advise that the account is in dispute?

 

I was under the impression that the dispute had to be settled before further collection action could be taken.

[JonCris]

YOU cannot dictate when an account is in dispute. Shows how much they know.

 

If they are going to have any success at all they really are going to have to employ staff who have more then 1 brain cell

[itsamomentintime]

and off course your default removed.

 

 

i am all for getting a default removed, but how would this be possible in this case? the OP has unfortunately missed payments, and has been defaulted

 

george can you explain on what grounds the OP could apply for the default to be removed?

[JonCris]

If they have missed payments due to the adding of unlawful penalty charges then any default can be removed

[Enron]

You could argue that was it not for the unlawful penalty charges you would have been able to make the payment for which you were defaulted.

[dori2o]

UPDATE:

 

Received this form HFC today.

 

Dear Dori2o

 

Thank you for your letter regarding the charges applied to your account. I am aware you are concened with the default charges, which have been debited during the history of your account. I have taken this opportunity to personally investigate the background to your complaint and would like to clarify our position as follows:-

 

The Office of Fiar Trading (OFT) has been investigating the level of default charges in respect of the Credit Card industry. However, your account does not relate to a credit card agreement and therefore we do not accept that it is covered by the OFT's investigation or the anouncement it ade on 5 April 2006.

 

Default charges are made if customers do not make the minimum payment by the payment due date, or if a payment to their account is returned unpaid. We believe that the fees imposed by HFC Bank are fair and reasonable and the circumstances when they apply are set out in the terms and conditions of the account.

 

I would like to thank you for taking the time to bring this matter to my attention. I regret that we are not prepared to make any refund of default charges.

 

Yours Sincerely

 

Pally Kaur

Senior Advisor

Executive Complaints.

 

Should I just proceed to the LBA following this letter?

[OldBear]

The Office of Fiar Trading (OFT) has been investigating the level of default charges in respect of the Credit Card industry. However, your account does not relate to a credit card agreement and therefore we do not accept that it is covered by the OFT's investigation or the anouncement it ade on 5 April 2006.

I've seen that exact same paragraph before, I'm sure it was in reply to a Black Horse claimant. Looks like the banks have got their own 'template library'.

 

I can't believe they think that the above is going to scare you off. You've already proved that you know what you're talking about.

 

Send your LBA and go for it, dori2o. I'll be watching with interest, as I'm going after HFC soon to claim back charges on a loan that took over an extra year to pay because of their charges.

 

Good luck.

 

OB

[JonCris]

UPDATE:

 

Received this form HFC today.

 

 

 

Should I just proceed to the LBA following this letter?

 

Yup! ....................They are still in denial I see............I wonder if they feel stupid each time they send such a letter?

[dori2o]

Yup! ....................They are still in denial I see............I wonder if they feel stupid each time they send such a letter?

 

Do I change the LBA to remove the bit about the OFT, as it does only refer to CC at this moment in time, or do I leave it as is?

[Mad Nick]

Dorio2, leave it in. The OFT actually said "The principles have wider implications for analogous standard default terms in other agreements" - you might want to say exactly that in your LBA. The Banks are just in denial. Regards, Mad Nick

[dori2o]

UPDATE:

 

Sent the LBA on 6th March (Got caught up on the Cap 1 claim)

 

Received 8th March-

 

Received response today dated 8th March.

 

Further to your recent letter, I am sorry to learn that you remain dissatisfied with your previous communication with Mrs Pally Kaur. The detauils of your complaint have now been escalated to me in accordance with HFC Bank's complaint handeling procedure.

 

Having given careful consideration to all of the information available, I write to advise thar I am unable to uphold your complaint and have sumarised below the basis on which I have made the decision.

 

The above account number financed a purchace made at XXXXXX Superstore for £XXX.XX in November 2002.

 

On 2 February 2007 you wrote to request a refund of the charges on the above account. Mrs Kaur responded to your letter on 7 February 2007 advising that we were not prepared to offer any refund of charges. In addition the account was not covered by the Office of Fair Trading (OFT) directon as this related to credit card acounts only and not personal loans. The OFT recommends a level of £12.00 as a fair relection of the actual cost, our default charges are £15 and we are therfore confident that they do reflect our actual costst incurred when handling late or missing payents.

 

I acknowledge receipt of yoyr response, in which you reiretate your belief that the charges applied to your account are unlawful under the direction issued by the OFT on 5 Aril 2006.

 

t is egrettable you feel we have not conducted ourselves lawfully, by charging you for the administration of your acount when the payment is not recived by the due date. Having reviewed your account, I am unable to agree with your comments and therefore we are unable to offer any refund or compensation. We believe our administration charges to be fair and lawful as specified in your terms and conditions.

 

I realise that this may not be the response you were hoping for but it does nevertheless bring an end to the steps available to you through our internal complaint handeling procedure, as this constitutes our final response.

 

In closing I m required to add you have the right to refer your complaint to the Financ and Leasing Association at Imperial ouse, 15-19 Kingsway, London, WC2B 6UN.

 

I was thinking of writing back demanding that they put m mind at ease' and divulge their costs to show how they arose. Aso, possibly using the @Unfar terms in contracts argument.

 

Also the part in red, I thought the £12 was a limit to what they could charge, not a recommendation.

 

Any ideas?

[dori2o]

Bump????