Amazon/UPS £1200 Macbook lost by UPS when i used My Own Returns postage label

[jk2054]

Hello,

I recently sent a return via UPS to amazon and amazon say they never record it arriving. UPS opened an investigation, sent claim docs and said they paid the claim, and have now turned around and say they’re not paying the claim as it was delivered.

I’ve issued UPS with a notice to pay and they have failed to obide by this. 

 

What would my next steps be? I assume I’d be suing UPS not amazon given UPS have originally said they lost it and paid a claim? 

 

Will donate after resolution - TIA

[jk2054]

Yep, its super confusing, please see a timed bullet point list of events below:

13 june - claim docs issued, UPS unable to prove delivery, UPS accept that shipment was lost

Tue 20 june - told that payment of £1007.49 will be processed within 10-12 days

20 June - payment amount adjustment was accepted (my shipment was £1200 but UPS max declarable value is £1,000 so I had to accept £1,007.49 which I did)

20 june - paperwork processing - query as to when payment will be made is raised

20 june - told waiting for system to update to the adjusted amount, then payment will be made

22 june - UPS mark claim as paid without paying

5 July - UPS change their position to say goods delivered no payment will be made.

Amazon remain of the position that they do not have any record of the shipment at their facility

The label was purchased privately, it was NOT an amazon return label, so they have no liability (which I believe is correct since UPS have previously admitted losing it)

[jk2054]

Thank you for your response.

I do,

I have one message where they say "According our terms and conditions section 9-9.4 UPS it could be only liable for the maximum liability of your parcel (£1000.00). 

We will include also the shipping charges according the Invoice (XXXXXXXX)*£7.49 (Excluding the declared value charge £5.00). Making a total payment amount of £1007.49 and you should receive the credit on an estimate timeframe of 5-12 working days. "

and another message where it says

" Hi, the status of your claim has been updated. We have paid the claim for this parcel. UPS Next steps - the claim has been paid. 

The item was a macbook and was returned because I selected the wrong keyboard layout by accident. 

I declared the value fully and paid for their extra cover.

 

SAR done .

[jk2054]

Hello,

For your first sentence, can you elaborate - UPS maximum liability for a UK shipment is £1,000. Surely I can't challenge that, because its not an insurance related thing, its their terms for all parcels? 

For the proof of delivery, I have asked, and they have simply provided a document earlier today that says "delivered and received by amazon", however they have stated that each parcel isnt scanned at the point of delivery and is only scanned at the depot, and prior to this they have sent numerous documents to show that the parcel wasn't delivered such as the initial claims form, the claim paid message, and various emails in which they accept the claim.  

 

I have done my reading, especially with the EVRi cases, and I'm assuming I can pretty much apply the same principle but I'm just making sure I do everything correctly before I make an error that makes my claim harder as I've never done one before . I've sent them a LBA and they've completely ignored it.

 

I assume my next step is to issue a claim against them - for my brief details im planning to explain that the shipment wasn't received, UPS investigation failed to find it, and they declared it lost, and despite saying they paid the claim UPS never did this and that for remedy I seek the £1,007 or the full value of the laptop (I'm still not sure on which one of these I can do, so if you can let me know I'd appreciate that).

 

Then for my POC I'd assume I'd just go more into detail on the timeline, as well as my proof from amazon where they say they haven't received it. Focus on UPS accepting the claim originally, as well as admitting that they didnt scan the physical parcel at the time of delivery. Should I bring up UPS saying they paid when they didn't or is that irrelevant given the main part of the dispute is now whether they should pay or not rather than them agreeing they should have paid but then not paying?

 

 

[jk2054]

Well UPS don't let you "Declare" the value, they simply give you the option to add insurance up to £1,000. I was never asked to imput the value of the goods when sending the parcel.

I have attached the letter of claim to this in PDF format.

Please advise if you think anything's missing I think its slightly different to the other ones I've seen on this forum, but unfortunately I already sent it by the time i came across this, but I've largely copied the template from Citizens advice website. If you think I should send another please let me know.

Thanks

 

 

_UPS letter 1Z2T99K36800001615.pdf

[jk2054]

Hi, I sent multiple, In total they've had over 28 anyway. CA gave me the template for the letter, I just inserted 7 days because they already had another letter prior, and various emails which they acknowledged.

I'm aware of that, which is why I asked you if you think I should send another since they're refusal to pay? (my previous letter before claim was before they decided to now say they're not paying - I sent the letter above after they said claim paid, but when I still hadn't received it.)

Please let me know your thoughts, I do appreciate your help.

 

[jk2054]

Yeah see about deadlines. I sent the first letter they said they'd pay within 10 days. That passed, so I sent them another letter saying to pay as they had overriden their time frame, that letter arrived and they said paid even though it now transpires they didn't

 

Is there a particular point I went wrong with the above or not?

[jk2054]

I’ll take what you said on board thanks for the advice. I’ll update it later and send it off.

 

I do have written confirmation from amazon yes

[jk2054]

This one please, didnt even notice they were seperate sorry about that

Please let me know what you think of this.

Dear XXX
Letter of Claim – reference number XXX
On XXX date I contracted you to deliver a parcel containing a MacBook computer to an address
in the UK.

The parcel was not delivered and in fact in correspondence dated XXX and XXX you admitted that you had lost the parcel and at one point offered to reimburse me the insured value of £XXX.

Since then you have reneged on your promise and furthermore, you have now tried to say that the MacBook was delivered even though you have not provided any evidence and Amazon themselves say that nothing has been received.

I note your own comments that you only scan items at your depot and you do not scan them at the point of delivery.

The evidence is fairly clear that you did in fact dispatch the MacBook to its destination but it was lost/stolen en route because as you know, it never arrived.

You have now changed your position and you have declined to reimburse me.

If I do not receive full reimbursement of £XXX within 14 days I shall begin a court claim against you in order to recover my money plus interest plus court costs, and without any further notice.

Yours

 

I've just changed a few small things so it should be good, but please do let me know if you think I've missed something.

 

Sorry I can't tell if im Judging too early but given the reaction would that claim letter be good to send?

TIA 

[jk2054]

Hello,

 

Would I be good to send this off?

[jk2054]

Thanks for confirming, I wasn't too sure sorry about that.

[jk2054]

Just posted now, should I begin to draft my POC now?

[jk2054]

Hey,

 

I'm working on my POC.

 

Would I base that I want to claim the full value of the macbook of the consumer rights act 2015 meaning they were double selling me insurance or would I base it on UPS's terms and conditions where it says it must not exceed the value of USD 50,000 and me selecting the highest level of cover I could, and as such since my value was below USD 50,000 I am entitled to claim the full value?

 

If I did It based on the latter, what would I claim in regards to the maximum I declared being up to £1,000. Would I claim that I was unable to declare the actual value of the package since this option was never available and instead I selected and paid for the maxium cover I could, and since I did not exceed UPS maximum value, I can claim up to the actual value of my goods, since the value falls below the maximum UPS liability value of USD 50,000?

 

TIA

[jk2054]

what I meant is, by losing the parcel, they're acting otherwise in accordance with section 49 of CSR 2015.

Therefore, I can surely refute their claim that I am only insured up to £1,000 as this is the level of cover I purchased, since they carry goods up to the value of 50,000 USD.

In regards to declared value, you never get the option to declare the value, you simply get two options,

one being you can use the £60 included cover,

the other being you can pay a flat fee to insure up to £1,000.

There is no option to insure above this, but in section 3.1 of their T&C's they limit a shipment's value maximum liability at 50,000 USD.

Since there's no option to declare the value, can I claim for the full value and then base my claim on them losing it is not carrying out the service with care nor skill, and as such I can claim the full value since their terms and conditions allow me to claim up to 50,000 USD?

OR

Do I have to accept the maximum amount I can claim for is £1,000  since this was the level of cover purchased (N.B no option to cover it for more)?

TIA

[jk2054]

Ok - We can ignore double insurance as it doesn't really impact this claim.

 

In regards to declaring value, I am sure there's no option.

I've attached  a document with two screenshots showing their protection page and their protection terms if you can take a look at them and just check it's as expected to make sure I've not missed anything?

Thanks so much for your help btw

UPS CARRIAGE TERMS FOR PROTECTION.pdf

[jk2054]

Thank you, I'm continuing my POC now (They'll probably need some edits) but once I'm done I'll post it here.

Thanks for your help so far

Hey - another quick question, in my POC should I reference that UPS initially say they paid, then say they want more time, then declare it delivered and refuse the claim, or do I simply reference UPS declaring it lost and then not paying?

Just a bit unsure and can't see a similar claim around anywhere?

[jk2054]

Ok - This is my first time so I'm prepared that you're probably going to say its terrible. 

 

 

POC draft 1.pdf

[jk2054]

ok the majority makes sense other than 

 

"

The defendant is prepared to waive their exclusion if the claimant pays extra money for an insurance policy which the defendant describes as "enhanced compensation" (xxxplease check that this is the name)xxx.
The claimant chose not to purchase the defendant's insurance policy on the basis that requiring customers to pay an extra fee in order to enjoy rights already guaranteed under the 2015 Act is contrary to ss.47 and 72 of the 2015 Act and therefore unnecessary and unenforceable."

 

I do not understand why I use this because I did purchase the insurance.

 

Can you explain why I should include this just incase im asked because it will surely contradict the fact that I did purchase the insurance?

[jk2054]

Thanks, I'll take a look at all the edits made.

In regards to their insurance they say "Subject to the provisions of paragraph 9.5, the shipper may obtain the benefit of a greater limit of liability than UPS provides under paragraph 9.2 above or than may be provided by Convention Rules or other mandatory national law.

The shipper may do so by declaring a higher value on the Waybill and paying an additional charge as stated in the Guide. If the shipper declares a higher value for carriage and pays the applicable charge, then UPS’s liability shall be limited to proven damages not exceeding the sum so declared. The value of the goods concerned shall not in any event exceed the limits specified in paragraph 3.1(ii) and the Guide."

However, They do not give me the option to declare a value on said waybill,  instead only allowing me to add insurance up to £1,000 for a flat fee, however this being said I have paid an additional charge to insure my parcel to the maximum level of cover offered, and in any case, as you've mentioned the insurance is " already guaranteed under the 2015 Act is contrary to ss.47 and 72 of the 2015 Act and therefore unnecessary and unenforceable.".

Would you think there is anything I should change or add to my POC based on this, or should I continue with my POC above?

You're advice is greatly appreciated

Ok, I've updated my POC.

I've chosen to refer to it as "Higher Protection" since this is what UPS sell's it as, and therefore I can reference I have higher protection, and by using protection I can reference the protection terms and conditions (specifically point 4) as you pointed out above which shows how loss/damage is noticed.

I've attached another copy of my (updated) POC if you could take a look and tell me what you think of it please

POC 2.pdf

[jk2054]

No worries thank you 

[jk2054]

It's on the top of the second page.

Do i need to reword it?

(quoted just so you know what im referring to)

[jk2054]

Sorry, my error, I misread what you referenced.

 

Please see attached doc, where it is now paragraph 3 of second page.

POC UPD.pdf

[jk2054]

I will update and resend a POC later with a response to your query.

Thank you for your help thus far

Further to previous message, please see POC attached.

Reformatted + included things you've brought up.

Should be all good now if you can check it please - TIA

UPS POC LHD.pdf

[jk2054]

Edit's suggested have been made. Please see attached

UPS have responded to my letter as follows:

"Thank you for your recent letter. Upon further review we do believe the goods were successfully delivered to amazon, and as such we will be taking no further action in this matter"

UPS have not yet responded to my SAR. 

UPS POC LHD 2.pdf

[jk2054]

will do ty