Leak from upstairs flat brought down ceiling

[BankFodder]

I'm not quite clear as to what you are saying.

I understand that the upstairs flat belongs to you as well as the one which has been affected by the leak?

[BankFodder]

Don't you have keys to the flat?

[BankFodder]

The continuous leak amounts to a nuisance.

The tort of nuisance is the wrongful interference with the enjoyment of property.
Clearly, the continuous/recurring leak fits in with that definition.

It is entirely reasonable to expect you to take whatever steps are necessary in order to abate the nuisance in order to prevent further damage.

Is there nothing in the agreement which obliges them to maintain the property to a reasonable standard? Is there nothing in the agreement which allows you to enter in the event of some emergency?

[BankFodder]

Okay, in that case it seems to me that the way forward is fairly obvious.
Gain access to the flat and get the work done. Get it done properly.
Get two independent quotations for the work and choose the cheapest. Three independent quotations will be better.

While you have access to the flat, I would suggest that you check it out generally as to its condition, smoke alarms, and eventually you want to know if it has an electricity certificate and also a gas safety certificate.
 

At the same time, get three independent quotations for the damage which has been caused by the persistent leak in which they have failed to address correctly.

You can put that work in hand as quickly as possible.

Do make sure that all of your quotations are all in writing and that you have everything properly receipted. No cash deals.

When everything has been made good and you are satisfied with the quality of the repair upstairs then come here and we will help you claim from them for all of your expenses reasonably incurred plus interest.

 

 

Don't discuss the question of cost of the repairs with them. Just go in and get the work done

 They can assume that you are going to pay that bill. But once it is all finished, then claim against them and sue them in short order if they cause any problems.
 

Your chances of success are much better than 90%

 

[BankFodder]

And incidentally, if it comes down to a question of claiming against the insurance, it is for them to claim against their own insurance.

Are they insured? They certainly should be. I believe it is a legal requirement for the property to be insured

[BankFodder]

If we can keep the claims to less than £10,000 then they would be in the small claims court. That means that even if you lost the case – most unlikely – you would only be liable for your own costs which would be extremely small.

I would suggest that you claim separately for the repair of the leak and for the damage caused to the downstairs flat.

In any event, you would win. It is clear that a leak which recurs after every attempt at repair, has not been properly repaired and so therefore they are in breach of their contractual duty.

Once again, the detail is important. Make sure you are scrupulous about getting quotations in writing from completely independent sources.

Make sure that the upstairs leaseholder fully informed as to visits for quotations and also the commencement of the work.

At some point it would be a good idea to furnish them with copies of the various quotations.

Once again, while you are in the flat, check for any breaches of regulations which apply to landlords – because that's what they are.

Also, you say that they are housing vulnerable tenants. Presumably they are doing this for the local council something. Be prepared at some point to complain to the local council that the tenants interests are not being properly looked after. Especially if you find that things like smoke alarms et cetera, monoxide alarms, safety certificates are properly in place.

Does your agreement give you any right to inspect safety certificates?

 

Who drew up the lease/agreement?

[BankFodder]

Also, you should get each one of the people who do the quotations to give a comment on the quality of the work that has been carried out so far and which has failed giving rise to the leak.

[BankFodder]

Don't get into an arguement about who is going to pay the money .

Your objective at the moment is to get the independent quotations and then to put the work in hand.

Don't rock the boat

 

 

[BankFodder]

Are you also putting in hand quotations for the repair of the damage to the downstairs flat?

These quotations could be obtained as quickly as possible and should be completely independent of the leak repair upstairs.

Let us know when you have got these. We are talking about at least four quotations – two up and two down. Six if possible.

I might suggest a slight change in strategy once you have got this

[BankFodder]

Also, you need to know how long they will need access to the upstairs flat. Can they do the job in a single day – meaning a single entry's – or would they need more than one day – multiple entries.
You will need to stress that the job must be of the very highest quality. You will be a good idea if photographs can be taken before and after – and even while you are escorting them for their quotations.

[BankFodder]

Don't start getting too excited. It is quite likely to start getting bloody at some point.

Have they agreed to allow you to enter for the quotations?

[BankFodder]

We are on the verge of the weekend. I suggest that you leave it until Monday lunchtime.

Meanwhile, please could you post up the message which you received from them in which they said that they would permit you to carry out works but they would have to be at your expense

[BankFodder]

Also a copy of any reply that you made to it and anything else in the exchange

[BankFodder]

What do you have to say about them saying that it is your responsibility to carry out the works? You said that the agreement make them responsible.

What is the AIRE team?

What is H & S? It would be helpful if you would give us the meaning of these acronyms without being asked.

You could certainly get access today – but that will then lead you into a confrontation which could be unhelpful.

I suggest that you start by completing the form – whatever it is – but then probably write to them in parallel. At least you have things moving along.

What are the wet electrics? I don't think you have mentioned this before

[BankFodder]

But are they wet electrics in their flat or in yours?

And what you say about them saying that it is your responsibility to carry out the works? You told us originally that you gave them a deal because they undertook to carry out the repairs. You haven't responded to this question

[BankFodder]

I may have misunderstood. You are saying that their position is that they are not allowed to carry out work on your property – only on theirs.

Submit the H & S form straightaway.

Send them an email separately

 

Quote

I have completed the H & S form as requested by you.

However, I would point out to you that we are on the verge of a bank holiday weekend. I'm happy to comply with all formalities and I have done so.
However, I hope we can work together on this because the persistent and recurring leak which has caused problems on at least four or five occasions needs to be fully addressed as a matter of urgency.
At the very least, the downstairs flat which has been affected by the leak from the premises controlled by yourselves is now in a dangerous condition because the electrics are wet, there is a fuse which is constantly being tripped as a result of moisture and although I am attempting to put repairs to the downstairs electrical system in hand, I need to commission works to deal with the source of the moisture which is the leak in your property.

I'd be grateful if exceptionally as a matter of urgency, you could grant me immediate permission to have leak on your premises inspected and to receive quotations for a full repair.

As you can imagine, this matter needs to be dealt with quickly and I'd be very grateful for a rapid reply to this email.

Signed

check this email above. See if it misses anything, if anything is incorrect, whether you want to add anything – let us know. Once we have seen what you are going to send them, then you should click it off straight away

[BankFodder]

And we have crossposted.
I have just seen the message which which you say that you have sent to them. I have already made it clear that you should not be confrontation with them at this stage and yet you have done precisely that.

The idea is to get in and get the work done and sort out the claims later on. Now you have sent an aggressive and challenging message and of course the chances of getting any kind of goodwill out of them is substantially reduced.

You need to get into a new mindset about this. It's about being stealthy.

Don't send any more messages until we see them if you want us to help you

[BankFodder]

No I wouldn't turn off the water. I wouldn't take any more action which ends up in a confrontation.

I would only think about turning off the water if I had a qualified electrician who came in and gave me a notice which certified that the elections were dangerous as a result of the leak.

If you want to put this in hand and this will give you some leverage. However I do think that the likelihood is that your conflict oriented message to them has set you back very badly.

  

15 hours ago, BankFodder said:

Don't get into an arguement about who is going to pay the money .

Your objective at the moment is to get the independent quotations and then to put the work in hand.

Don't rock the boat

 

 

I'm not sure which part of this advice you didn't manage to understand

[BankFodder]

Okay – sorry for being grumpy. I hadn't realised

[BankFodder]

The point that I'm making is that they must be lulled into a sense that you are going along with it and that you will put the repairs into effect and that you will pay for them and that you will pay for the damage downstairs.

The important thing is to get the damage properly quoted for by various sources and then to get the damage repaired.

Later on we can demonstrate that you have done everything you can to communicate with them, to make sure that you have selected the best repair solution in a fair and transparent manner – and that you have either chosen the cheapest or at least the most effective.

Once you have the quotations, we will show the quotations to them and ask them to comment. The important thing is that you must be able to show that they were informed at all times as to what was going on.
This kind of transparency will pay dividends later on.

As soon as you start getting into conflict, they will pull up drawbridges and you will find things very much more difficult and you may then have to enter by force in order to abate the nuisance. This is permissible in law and if they make it impossible to carry out the repairs then this is what I'm going to advise you – but for the moment, let's try and do things gently and with an air of friendliness. In other words, let's get things done by stealth.