RBS chargeback help ***Refunded in full***

[FTMDave]

Hi everyone,

 

I've never been in a "chargeback" situation before and would appreciate some help.

 

I've tried to do some research before posting.  My purchase was by credit card, and for under £100, so Section 75 is no good but chargeback is - right?

 

What happened is this.  I'm going on holiday to Uzbekistan in June and I was trying to buy tickets on the Uzbek trains site.  The site kept crashing during payment.  On one occasion, although no ticket was issued, payment was taken from my RBS Master Card.

 

To complicate matters, although I'm British I live in the EU and if I have to faff around with snail mail to ask for chargeback (because banks won't communicate by e-mail) or get on the phone to them I'll end up paying more than the lost payment (train tickets are cheap in Uzbekistan, the 1010 km night train costs just over 15 quid).

 

Of course it's impossible to find chargeback info on the RBS site.  instead they have a "dispute a card transaction page" https://www.rbs.co.uk/fraud-and-security/retaildisputes/card-payment-dispute.html  with a procedure that looks easily doable on-line, but I'm just wondering that if i accept their procedures I'll somehow be "giving up" chargeback rights.

 

Sorry for any daft newbie-ness, never been in this situation before!

 

Thanks in advance for any help.

 

[Ethel Street]

Whilst this is no help to you with your Chargeback problem just wanted to share that I did a train tour of Uzbekistan just before Covid and it was a fantastic experience.  You'll love it.

 

Happy to share any travellers tips.

[dx100uk]

should work ok dave.

 

 

dx

[BankFodder]

I agree that I don't think it should affect any chargeback rights at all.

 

Also, I don't see any problem with informing them by email that you are claiming a chargeback.

The important thing is to bring it to their notice.

 

I'm not aware of any rules which say that you must follow a particular procedure in order to benefit.

 

These processes are installed for the banks benefit and certainly not for you

[Andyorch]

Quote

My purchase was by credit card, and for under £100, so Section 75 is no good but chargeback is - right?

 

You cant utilise the chargeback process for a credit card purchase ( error.)..inform your credit card of the error or take it up with Uzbek trains site.

[FruitSalad1010]

This MSE chargeback guide is pretty easy to follow.

 

It lists one of the conditions for a chargeback as breach of contract and then more specifically for non-delivery.

 

You wrote above that you didn't receive a ticket but were charged.

 

In my experience banks and their card issuers are generally pretty obstructive.

They sign up to all sorts of agreements between each other on how to handle payment disputes, all in the interest of quantifying their liability and with very little interest in returning your money.

I think you will find that one of the conditions is that you approach the company with whom the error arose before initiating the chargeback process. The underlying reason being the card issuer will likely charge a fee for the chargeback process. Notifying the company involved gives them an opportunity to rectify the dispute before the card issuer charges them a fee for doing so.

Mastercard have a very large document referred to as their "Chargeback Guide". I don't know which company issued your card but no doubt Visa and American Express have similar documents.

If you have the time to read such a document and want to know more, all the devilish terms etc will be contained within.

[FTMDave]

Thanks to you all for your help.

 

I got two e-mail addresses from the Uzbek trains sites on Saturday and e-mailed them in English, and, er, in Uzbek and in Russian (well, bad Google Translates Uzbek and Russian at least).  Today I got another e-mail address from them after they e-mailed me a successful ticket purchase  support@uzrailpass.uz  so the mail went off a third time.

 

The RBS only allow me to register a dispute after 14 days so I'll see if the Uzbek site replies.

 

I may be pessimistic, I had a similar problem with Azeri trains in 2015 and they did refund me, albeit I had to wait for quite a while.

 

It is a Mastercard.

 

I'll read the MSE guide over the weekend when time permits.

 

Thanks again.

[FTMDave]

Thanks to everyone for your help.  The MSE guide was indeed easy to follow FruitSalad.

 

So as the 14 days are up today I've started a payment dispute case with the RBS's own disputes procedure and kept screenshots of everything I wrote.

 

As belt & braces I also requested, through their feedback form, an e-mail address through which i can request a chargeback.  Their automatic chat bot refuses to recognise the word.  There are no e-mail addresses on their site.  I've said I want an e-mail address as (a) my geographical branch has closed down and (b) I don't live in the UK.  We'll see what happens.  If they don't cooperate the plan is to e-mail a letter to them to a close friend in the UK and ask her to print it out and send it.  I know Andy isn't optimistic about chargeback but I might as well try, for the experience of going through the procedure to learn about it if nothing else.

[FruitSalad1010]

You could try searching RBS on ceoemail.com for a relevant email address.

The results have varying success depending on how well each company is prepared to manage its correspondence, but it may speed up the process.

[FTMDave]

Thanks FruitSalad, but on ceoemail.com and also CAG's own RBS contact page there are only snail-mail addresses for the CEO.

Anyway, regarding the bank's own disputes procedure, they sent me a mail today asking for more details - in particular of proof I have contacted the retailer.  I have just sent the same.

Regarding chargeback, well on Monday i got a reply from the bank's customer services -

We have reviewed your query and have passed your details on to the relevant team who we feel are best placed to deal with the query you have raised

- since which you'll be unsurprised to learn I've heard precisely nowt.

I'm therefore getting on with getting a mate in the UK to send them a snail-mail letter with proof of postage.

[FruitSalad1010]

That's strange when I checked I found the email for Alison Rose CEO of NatWest, not forgetting that RBS became a subsidiary of NatWest Holdings in 2019.

If they were managing their correspondence then I expect it would have just been passed down to the position you find yourself in now anyway.

Edited May 25, 2023 by FruitSalad1010

[dx100uk]

yes rsb is now natwest

 

dx

[FTMDave]

Doh!

Why didn't I think about the NatWest link, especially as, er, i was in the UK on 21 April and went into a NatWest branch?!!

E-mail just sent to Alison Rose.

Thanks FruitSalad and dx.

[FTMDave]

Well, less than two hours after e-mailing the NatWest CEO I got a reply from a "Case Manager within the bank’s Executive Office" asking me for more details of the disputed transaction.

So the chargeback claim has gone to him, with my letter indeed summarising "more details".

Let's see ...

[FTMDave]

Well, a lot has happened in the last 48 hours.

Yesterday the NatWest "Executive Case Manager" e-mailed me -

Dear XXXXX

Thank you again for your email to Alison and for getting back to me with further information.

I’m sorry again for the problems you have experienced trying to raise your chargeback claim and I acknowledge that you are unable to visit any of our branches as you live overseas.

While you are unable to raise a claim by email, customers can raise a chargeback claim via our website and I’ve detailed a link below.

https://www.rbs.co.uk/fraud-and-security/retaildisputes/card-payment-dispute.html

I was sorry to read of the problems you had using Cora and I recognise the frustration that this caused you. I’ve just used the service and if you type in chargeback and then click on retailer dispute, you can select goods not received and follow the relevant steps.

I accept that we should have handled your query better and there is no excuse for failing to get back to you. Please accept my apologies for this.

I can see from the emails you have enclosed that you have tried to contact the transport service for a refund but haven’t had a response to your letters. Due to the poor handling of your query, I’ve made arrangements to refund the transactions below, which will save you the trouble of raising a claim and I do hope that this resolves matters.

05MAY23       DEBIT         NON-STERLING TRANSACTI                           0.41-

05MAY23       SALE           RAILWAYUZ                                                      15.05-

You have the right to refer your complaint to the Financial Ombudsman Service, free of charge – but you must do so within six months of the date of this email. If you do not refer your complaint in time, the Ombudsman will not have our permission to consider your complaint and so will only be able to do so in very limited circumstances, for example, if the Ombudsman believes that the delay was as a result of exceptional circumstances.

On the one hand he refuses to accept the chargeback letter I e-mailed him and strangely refers to the bank's own procedure as "chargeback" when I don't think it is ... but on the other hand promises to refund me which is fine!

A few minutes ago I received this from the RBS retail disputes people -

Hello XXXXX

About your dispute
We just wanted to let you know that we're temporarily refunding the payment(s) that was made to RailwayUz for the amount of £15.05 & £0.41 as Non-sterling transaction  fee while we investigate further. This will show as a credit on your next statement.

Retailer Credit?
We advise monitoring your account as the retailer may issue their own refund as a result of our investigation. If this were to happen, we will reverse any temporary credit(s) within 25 days without notice.

What happens next
RailwayUz may provide more details about the disputed payment(s). This could lead to the temporary refund(s) paid to your account being reversed. We may need to contact you again at a later date should we require any further information.

If you do not hear from us by 15 August 2023 the refund will remain in your account.

I've just checked my account and the money was refunded yesterday!

So unless there is some last-minute twist I think this can be marked as a win!

Thanks to Ethel, dx, BankFodder, Andy & FruitSalad for the advice.  FruitSalad is on my "must send a postcard to from Uzbekistan" list!

[Manxman in exile]

2 hours ago, FTMDave said:

 

.... I've just checked my account and the money was refunded yesterday!

So unless there is some last-minute twist I think this can be marked as a win!

Thanks to Ethel, dx, BankFodder, Andy & FruitSalad for the advice.  FruitSalad is on my "must send a postcard to from Uzbekistan" list!

@FTMDave  -  you need to remember that RailwayUz have up to 45(?) days to challenge the bank's decision to award you a chargeback.  

Of course they may not know or may not understand that...

Edited May 27, 2023 by Manxman in exile

[FTMDave]

Point taken MiE.

Just written on the calendar to check my account on 16 August and report back.

[FTMDave]

Well, the latest is that i got refunded on 26 May ... and again on 29 May!

This will be because I was both going through the bank's internal disputes procedure but also pushing for chargeback.

The first refund was entitled "Credit adjustment" while the second was "ERT/compensation".

Once I'd completed my last Uzbek train journey I wrote to the bank to say i was entitled to one refund, but not two.  The reply form the person who had sorted everything out was -

Dear XXXXX

Thank you for letting me know.

Give the low value, I’m happy to leave this matter as it is. As I credited the amount as compensation, this won’t cause you any problems with our Disputes Team. 

Many thanks

Anyway, I know D-Day is 16 August but so far the bank have been happy to refund me - twice!

Thanks to everyone for your help.

[FTMDave]

Well, D-Day has been and gone, and the money is still safely in my account - twice!

Thanks to FruitSalad and everyone who helped.

I'll certainly know what to do in future thanks to you all.