Perch/TM - PAPLOC now claimform - old Oakbrook loan through Likely Loans

[finaldj]

I'm just wondering

I sent the LBA reply recorded and they got it on the 26 April where I asked for more time under section 78 for the credit agreement which was sent to me via email on the 5 May.

 

The court letter is dated 2 May

 

can they actually start court proceedings before sending me documentation?

 

if this is something the LBA gives 30 days for and I have requested within that time frame then surely they have to give time to me to respond back once they have supplied documents before filing for court?

 

They did file for court after the 30 day window. just didn't supply the documents I asked for before filing

[Andyorch]

I don't think 3 days will carry much weight with regards to PAP but you can refer to it in passing.

[finaldj]

I'm sending the CPR 31:14 tomorrow do you still need to attach the £1 postal order?

 

 

[dx100uk]

eh?

 

dx

[finaldj]

When sending the CPR 31:14  form there was a £1 statuary fee that I remember last time? correct me if I'm wrong before I send it??

[dx100uk]

really?

 

where does any post/guide say that here....

[finaldj]

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

 

I just read up elsewhere last time that it's usually £1 but I don't recall sending anything last time anyway.

[dx100uk]

.................the £1 PO is for a CCA request....

[finaldj]

Could you please send me the link to read up on how to proceed with my defence. needs to be submitted by Friday, I suspect I won't have the DN and notice of assignments by then so need to get something submitted for the court.

[dx100uk]

there isn't one. never has been

you should have/be reading like threads already here on CAG.

use our enhanced google search box.

how about perch tm claimform.

dx

 

[finaldj]

I've filled out my defence form based off my last one I sent in first time around, I'm just waiting to get it looked over from the person that helped me with the last one.

In the mean time I got this from the national debt helpline page:-

Court claim

If you reply to the letter of claim but cannot come to an agreement with the creditor, they should give you at least 14 days' notice that they intend to start a court claim.

The creditor should not start a court claim within either 30 days of receiving the completed reply form, or 30 days of providing you with the documents you asked for.

 

I sent a request off for a copy of the credit agreement on the 25 April (within the 30 days) they signed for it next day and they sent me a copy of this agreement by email on the 5th May. I got a letter from the courts dated 2nd May.

They didn't give me a further 30 days to communicate with them on providing documentation and already started court proceedings before I got the document. Am I reading this as 60 days in total or is this just how they have worded it?

Edited May 30, 2023 by finaldj

[dx100uk]

you dont fill out the form

you respond on MCOL as you did for AOS

but post up you defence here FIRST for checking please.....

 

as for the PAPLOC debacle, your defence is not the place to bring it up if there is an issue. later in your ES p'haps...

[finaldj]

Last time I filled it out and and sent it to this email address ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk it was updated on the system by them.

This is a work in progress document:-

 

In the [Northampton County Court Business Centre]

Claim No: [XXXXX]

[Perch Capital LTD]

Claimant

And

[ME]

Defendant

DEFENCE

1.The Defendant received the claim [02/05/2023] from the [Name of Court Northampton ] County Court on 02/05/23 <----- issue date I recieved 5 days later

 

2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.

 

3.This claim [is for] x1 [Unsecured Loan] agreement regulated under the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

4.It is [admitted] that the Defendant has [previously] entered into [an agreement] with [Original Creditor] for provision of credit.

 

5.The Claimants statement of case fails to give adequate information to enable me to properly assess my position with regards the claim.

 

6.The Claimant’s Particulars of Claim [fail to provide statements when the agreements were entered into/states the agreement was entered into since they have taken on the debt]

 

8.The Claimants statement of case states that the account was assigned from [Oakbrook finance] to [ACI LTD ] on [Unsure of dates but have email contact from the 22/05/2022] [TM Legal unsure of dates again but have the earliest email dated 27/3/2023]. The Defendant does not recall receiving notice of this assignment.

 

9.It is denied that [Oakbrook Finance] served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.

 

10.On the [25/05/23] The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to [Claimant’s Solicitor]. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the [Agreement 25/04/23]

 

11.[Claimant’s Solicitor] has not provided all these documents to the Defendant at the time of submitting my defence]

 

12.On the [25/04/23 & 25/05/23] The Defendant sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreements including Default Notice's and Notice of assignments to [TM Legal Services] pursuant to section [78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.

 

13.The Claimant has failed to comply with [s78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.

 

15.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a MoneyClaim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.

 

16.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.

 

17.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.

 

18.It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief as claimed or at all.

 

Statement of Truth

The Defendant believes that the facts stated in this Defence are true.

Signed ________________________________

Dated ________________________________

[dx100uk]

8 hours ago, finaldj said:

Last time I filled it out and and sent it to this email address ccbcaq@justice.gov.uk it was updated on the system by them.

probably because MCOL was fruked.

that looks a bit old hat embarrassed defence to me.

you dont need the statement of truth if you file online at mcol.

id phap's base it more upon or holding/no paperwork defence, top few paras are missing?

............... add it these/base around

1.  The Defendant contends that the Particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 4 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

 

3. Paragraph 1 is noted.  I have in the past had financial dealings with Progressive Money Limited.   

 

5.  The Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a)  show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b)  show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice  pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974; and

(c)  show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(d)  show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a  claim.

6. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 77 request, copies of the documents referred to within the Claimant’s particulars to establish what the claim is for. 

I am currently waiting for the Claimant to comply with my section 77 request as well as receipt of copies of the documents requested in my CPR 31.14 request.

7. As per Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82 A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.

 

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

 

[finaldj]

It's a working document that I can edit as needed so I'll get it right and hopefully get it sent in later today. This is the edited version with your suggestions?

 

In the [Northampton County Court Business Centre]  

Claim No: [XXXXX]  

[Perch Capital LTD]  

Claimant  

And  

[ME]  

Defendant  

DEFENCE  

1. The Defendant contends that the Particulars of Claim are vague and generic in nature.  The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR 4 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

   

2.Each and every allegation in the Claimants statement of case is denied unless specifically admitted in this Defence.  

   

3. Paragraph 1 is noted.  I have in the past had financial dealings with Progressive Money Limited. 

   

4.It is [admitted] that the Defendant has [previously] entered into [an agreement] with [Original Creditor] for provision of credit.  

   

5. The Claimant is put to strict proof to:  

(a)  show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and 
(b)  show and evidence the nature of breach and service of a default notice  pursuant to Section 87(1) CCA1974; and  

(c)  show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 
(d)  show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a  claim. 

 

6. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 77 request, copies of the documents referred to within the Claimant’s particulars to establish what the claim is for.   

I am currently waiting for the Claimant to comply with my section 77 request as well as receipt of copies of the documents requested in my CPR 31.14 request. 

 

7. As per Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 

 

8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82 A of the Consumer Credit Act 1974.  

   

9.It is denied that [Oakbrook Finance] served any Default notice on the Defendant pursuant to s87 Consumer Credit Act 1974. The Claimant is required to prove that a compliant Default Notice was served upon the Defendant. The Claimant is required to prove that the any Default notice relied upon complied with the requirements of s88(4A) Consumer Credit Act 1974 and that the notice was in the prescribed form as required by The Consumer Credit Enforcement Default and Termination Notice Regulations 1983.  

   

10.On the [25/05/23] The Defendant sent a request for inspection of documents mentioned in the claimant’s statement of case under Civil Procedure Rule 31.14 to [Claimant’s Solicitor]. I requested the Claimant provide copies of the [Agreement 25/04/23]  

   

11.[Claimant’s Solicitor] has not provided all these documents to the Defendant at the time of submitting my defence]  

   

12.On the [25/04/23 & 25/05/23] The Defendant sent a formal request for a copy of the original agreements including Default Notice's and Notice of assignments to [TM Legal Services] pursuant to section [78] of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 along with the statutory £1 fee.  

   

13.The Claimant has failed to comply with [s78 (1)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 and by virtue of [s78 (6)] Consumer Credit Act 1974 cannot enforce the agreement.  

   

14.Under Civil Procedure Rule 16.5 (4) Where the claim includes a MoneyClaim, a defendant shall be taken to require that any allegation relating to the amount of money claimed be proved unless he expressly admits the allegation. Therefore, it is expected that the Claimant be required to prove the allegation that the money is owed as claimed.  

   

15.The Defendant respectfully requests the court orders the Claimants to provide the necessary documentation in order for The Defendant to fully plead his case else the Claim should stand struck out.  

   

16.In the event that the relevant documents are received from the Claimant, the Defendant will then be in a position to amend his defence, and would ask that the Claimants bear the costs of the amendment.  

   

17. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. 

Edited May 30, 2023 by finaldj

[dx100uk]

you are doing the same you did last time in court!!

stop using old out of date defences!!

adapt the one @andyorch gave you for lowells

Lowell/Overdales - PAPLOC Now Claimform - 2x Old Shop Direct Isme/Very Cat debts - Page 2 - Financial Legal Issues - Consumer Action Group

 

[finaldj]

Thanks I must have passed that one when looking through.

I'm just going through that one now and changing things over to make it relevant to this one

 

How does this look?

POC

1. The claimant claims payment of an overdue balance in the sum of (£3468.72) incurred by the defendant under a likely loans, unsecured loan account number (is 10 digits long)

2. The defendant failed to maintain payment in line with the Agreement and as a result the account was terminated.

3. The account was then subsequently assigned to the Claimant and the Defendant has been given notice of the accounts assignment

 

Defence  

   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made. 

   1. The Claimant claims £3468.72 is owed under a regulated Unsecure Loan account under reference with Likely Loans. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant's solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 77 request who are yet to fully comply. 

   2. A 6 month £5 minimum payment plan was agreed, this was to be reviewed after 6 months. This never happened and the debt was passed onto ACI. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 
 
3. The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all. 
 
4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to: 
 
(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and 
(b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and 
(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and 
(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim; 
 
5. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date I am still waiting for them to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request. 
 
6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed. 

   7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974. 
 
8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief. 

 

Thank you whoever copied them bits in.

With regards to 3.

3. The account was then subsequently assigned to the Claimant and the Defendant has been given notice of the accounts assignment

I have sent off the CPR 31.14 so I don't have the DN or Notice of assiagnment. Is this just to inform the courts that I am aware that the DCA has taken over the account regardless of them sending me the information I requested?

 

 I get it now, thank you

[finaldj]

Particulars of claim for reference only

1. The claimant claims payment of an overdue balance in the sum of (£3468.72) incurred by the defendant under a likely loans, unsecured loan account number (is 10 digits long)

2. The defendant failed to maintain payment in line with the Agreement and as a result the account was terminated.

3. The account was then subsequently assigned to the Claimant and the Defendant has been given notice of the accounts assignment

 

Defence

The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

1. The Claimant claims payment of an overdue balance incurred by the defendant under a Likely Loans, unsecured loan. I do not recall the precise details of the agreement and have sought verification from the claimant's solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 77 CCA1974.

2. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged breach the claimant has yet to respond to my CPR 31.14.

3. I am unable to recall if the claimant did serve a Notice of Assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 as alleged or at all. 

4. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and
(b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and
(c) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and
(d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

5. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date I am still waiting for them to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.

6. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

7. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

8. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[Andyorch]

Defence tweaked.

 

Andy

[finaldj]

Thanks Andy

 

I have just scanned up copies of the DN and notice of assignment they sent me via email this morning. blanked areas where my name and account numbers should be I've taken out.

Can you have a look and let me know if my defence needs to change based on this new information. The account is only a few years old so doesn't surprise me they've got this info.

 

 

TM legal DN notice & assignment.pdf

[Andyorch]

Oh dear all looks good I'm afraid although there is no Notice of Assignment in the upload. You must have been desperate to enter into that agreement !!!.

 

Given what they have disclosed I personally would enter into settling this out of court possibly by way of a Tomlin Order by way of an affordable monthly payment arrangement providing they stay the claim.

 

The above proposed defence wont cut it on this relatively new agreement.

[finaldj]

Yes, to be honest, shouldn’t have taken it out but car issues at the time called for desperate measures. 

 

 

Where do I go from here then. I’ve filled out the MCOL site as fully defend the claim. Defence needs to be submitted by Friday at 4pm. 

[finaldj]

I've looked up the tomlin order but I work for the NHS so it won't put my job at risk and puts the DCA in a position to ask for any amount of payment they want or get a CCJ

We are only a few days away from needing to file my defence for court. would it help to file the defence in the current format and just down play that I hadn't seen the email for the DN, credit agreement etc and then either let it go to court and admit I owe the money and offer a payment plan with them after or agree to one once this first defence is submitted.

The other option would be mediation before court? is this always an option?

[dx100uk]

a tomlin/consent will be on your terms too. 

but if you dont meet them at any point after its signed it would be an automatic CCJ .

mediation would probably result in the above anyway.

 

[finaldj]

Ok so this is a new one.

 

For a Tomlin order what do I need to fill out and do I submit this on the mcol site in place of my defence or do I email this direct to the company?

I need to submit my defence by Friday 4pm