PCM/Gladstones Claimform - scratched 7am not PM on visitors voucher - Tachbrook SW1 V (Peabody Estate Pimlico, London).

[FTMDave]

The way court claims take place in England & Wales is that costs are included with the claim.

 

So give in now, or lose in court, you more or less pay the same.  Obvious conclusion - you might as well fight the fleecers.

 

Please fill in the stickies as LFI has asked, you have only a limited time to reply to the claim form otherwise you will lose by default.

[FTMDave]

2 hours ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Date for AOS - ( 21 November 2022

Actually 30 November - which has already passed.

 

You need to do Acknowledgement of Service now otherwise the fleecers will apply for judgement and you will lose by default

 

The instructions on how to do so are in post 21 here  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/432762-eps-anpr-pcn-ignored-loc-now-claimform-29-sec-stay-shoulder-of-mutton-birmingham/

 

Do this immediately, no messing about.

[FTMDave]

8 minutes ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

I believe I have done that via the website www.moneyclaim.gov.uk  website. On there I acknowledged receiving the claim and asked for more time to defend it. 

Well done! 

[FTMDave]

So your next steps are.

 

1. Get a CPR request going to Gladdys.

 

2.  Get whoever you were visiting to look at their lease and see what is says about parking.  There is a load of case law regarding something called Supremacy of Contract which means that if this person had an agreement about parking before the fleecers came in the charlatans can't override it.

[FTMDave]

Well the date is right: 28.02.2022.

 

But the time certainly isn't: they've put 18:01.  Yet the NTD has the time of 09:29!!!

 

However, if you look closed at the top bit of the photos, they are timestamped as either 09:28 or 09:29.

 

I'm in the same boat as LFI, I can't get my head around the permit system, can you please explain?

[FTMDave]

We have a standard generic defence.  Go to  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/393251-received-a-court-claim-from-a-private-parking-speculative-invoice-how-to-deal-with-it-hereupdated-dec-2021/  and scroll down to  Q2) How should I defend?  The defence is there.  Your deadline is 14 December, but best to file it a couple of days early just in case of site problems.

 

Your detailed evidence to smash the fleecers will come later, at WS stage.

 

17 hours ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

Unfortunately, the tenant has just left the country and won't be back for months. I don't think I can look to her for help. She's been living there for years and probably doesn't even know where her tenancy agreement is...knowing her.

But this evidence is vital.  It's your ace.  Possibly the difference between winning and losing.  Surely she can get on to whoever she has the agreement with, by mail, and request a copy.

Edited December 5, 2022 by FTMDave
Extra info added

[FTMDave]

When you have time read through these threads.  You will see why the argument of Supremacy of Contract is so important.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/link-parking-lose-in-wrexham-flat-owner.html

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/05/ukpc-lose-residential-case-will-vicim.html?m=0

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2017/07/ukpc-lose-residential-case-tenant-can.html

[FTMDave]

What you have to do now is very simple and will take no time at all.

 

Just file the standard, generic defence.

 

I would do it on Monday just to be on the safe side.

 

You'll then have months to gather evidence and produce a Witness Statement to blast the fleecers' case out of the water.

[FTMDave]

Have a read of this one thread  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments

 

In it all the legal stages all the way to a court case are mentioned. 

 

That way you'll get up to speed and realise what will happen next.

[FTMDave]

40 minutes ago, Nicky Boy said:

Beaten by dx. Story of my life...

Join the club Nicky Boy

[FTMDave]

 

When that's done come back and we can calmly move on to the next stage.

 

If you try to file the defence tomorrow, don't be suprised if you find work being done on MCOL.  If so, no hassle, it can be done on Monday.

[FTMDave]

Yes, that's fine.  Good work.

 

Once that's done this evening please come back and we can move on to what needs to be done next.

[FTMDave]

Well done on the defence. 

 

What you need to do now, slowly when time permits, is to build up a case to smash the fleecers with in your Witness Statement further down the line.

 

1.  If you haven't already done it, get a CPR request off as dx explained in posts 17 and 27.  The charlatans either won't reply or in a measly-mouthed reply will refuse to show planning permission or a contract with the landowner, and you can embarrass them with this in the WS.

 

2.  Read  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments  This thread is short and you will see all the stages of the court procedure.

 

3.  Get onto the planning permission portal of whatever council area the car park is in, and see if the fleecers have PP for their signs.  Clue - there will be no planning permission to find.

 

4.  Push your friend to get a copy of her lease/rental agreement.  This is vital.

 

To answer your questions.

 

Yes, you should, bit by bit, gather evidence for the WS.

 

How long?  Depends on how overworked the courts are.  Certainly some months.

Edited December 17, 2022 by FTMDave
Typo

[FTMDave]

Any update?  Have you done CPR?

[FTMDave]

Understood about lack of time, but sadly the courts are uninterested in people's individual circumstances.

 

You need to do what is set out in post 59.

[FTMDave]

On 11/01/2023 at 00:53, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

I should add, I have to complete the directions questionaire form N180 and file it with the court office by 20th January. I am going abroad on Friday and not coming back until that day so will have to do it whilst I'm away.

No problem, it's just a simple form.

 

Why not deal with it tomorrow?  It will take all of five minutes.  You then e-mail the court their copy and send the fleecers theirs by 2nd class post with a free Certificate of Posting.

 

What to do is written on every single claim form thread on the forum.

 

CAG is a self-help site, surely you've read threads by others in a similar position.

 

 

 

On 11/01/2023 at 00:50, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

I have asked her a few times about this but, she seems reluctant to to request a copy because she thinks it is pointless.

I'll reply to your other points tomorrow - knackered now - but this is simply disgraceful.

 

An easy, straight forward thing to do, to ask for a copy of a document from the body she has a contract with and presumably would cooperate immediately.  After all, it's a click of a computer to send a PDF file.

 

You have a relationship with this woman, so it's easy for me to say, but given her behaviour I would be telling her either she gets a move on or she will be added as a Third Party to the court case which she would then lose due to being abroad and would have a CCJ and a knackered credit file in GB for six years. 

 

More tomorrow.

[FTMDave]

OK, I'm more awake now so to answer your points.

 

As dx has explained, the DQ is a simple form and you can deal with it in two minutes today, then enjoy your trip away from Friday.

 

The fact there has been no reply to the CPR request is - good!  Think about it.  They refuse to produce legal permissions.  It's almost as if they don't have them ...

 

If you have witnesses prepared to write a short witness statement then great.  This is not criminal court, it's civil with a much lower standard of proof.

 

The way the court process woks is that costs are already included in the claim, so you lose nothing by fighting.  Give in now and you pay costs.  Lose in court and you pay costs.

 

Of course we are here to help you win in court.

 

What someone remembers from a document can be very different to what is really in the document.  It should take a matter of minutes to request and receive a copy of the tenancy agreement and it bemuses me why this person is so uncooperative.

[FTMDave]

6 minutes ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

So, is what they are asking on the claims for the total they will be asking for if it goes to court?

Currently the amount is £265.  If you lost in court you would have to pay an extra £25 for the hearing fee but the judge would reduce - yes reduce - the £20 interest by a few quid.

 

It's also probable - but not certain - that the judge would disallow the £60 Unicorn Food Tax they have made up.

 

So worst case scenario, around £285.

 

9 minutes ago, Disgruntled driver2022 said:

she doesn't recall anything being in there about rights to parking.

Surely it's just common sense that it's better to see the thing in B&W rather than relying on someone's memory.

[FTMDave]

So a fortnight has passed.

 

Any update regarding the tenancy agreement?

 

 

[FTMDave]

OK, well it's pointless harping on & on.  We'll shut up about the tenancy agreement from now on.

 

It could lead to you easily winning the case but hey, a simple mail to get an easily-obtainable document is beyond your friend, so so be it.

[FTMDave]

A CPR request is just a request.  They don't have to comply.  So they've done nothing wrong.
 

However, their failure to supply documentation is to your advantage.  Think about it.

 

Later on in your Witness Statement you can write that you sent a CPR request to Gladstones, requesting to see a copy of their client's contract with the landowner, and proof of planning permission for their signs.  Although they replied to you they refused to supply these proofs.  You believe they don't exist.

 

Nicky Boy and HoneyBee are spot on.  You need to gen up and realise what will come next during the court procedure.  This short thread goes all the way through the stages of a court claim  https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/406892-highview-parking-anpr-pcn-claimform-urban-exchange-manchester-claim-dismissed/#comments

 

[FTMDave]

I'm in a rush now between jobs at work, but if I've read it properly the fleecers have bottled turning up in court.

[FTMDave]

As dx says, it's vital you find the deadline for filing the WS.

 

Gladstones are nearly always late, so it's suspicious that they sent a WS now for 23 June.  It would suggest the judge set an early deadline.

[FTMDave]

If you can't find the court order by tomorrow, then ring the court urgently.

[FTMDave]

Any update?