UKPC/PARKING PATROL LTD UK/BW windscreen PCN PAPLOC now claimform - appeal+IPC both refused - Private car park 325 Greenford Rd, Greenford

[FTMDave]

Well you've done just about everything wrong so far, but hey that's just normal if you've never been in that situation before.

 

But don't worry, nothing fatal, we can help you bat this away.

 

Work calls now but I promise to reply properly late this evening. 

 

Regarding a CCJ.  CCJs are used to punish people who defy court judgements.  The only way you could get a CCJ is if the parking company sent you a formal Letter of Claim, then started a court case, then won the court case, and you defied the court and refused to pay.  Then you would get a CCJ.  Even on the very, very, very, very, very few occasions Caggers lose in court, as long as payment is made within 30 days of being ordered by the court there is no CCJ.  

 

More later but in the meantime as dx says can you please upload the fleecers' invoice, this is vital info we need to see.

 

 

[FTMDave]

For future reference, the private parking companies never, ever, ever accept appeals - ever.

 

Do you know the history of the iAS?  Once upon a time there was only one parking association, the British Parking Association, which had an appeals body that sometimes accepted motorists' appeals, to the chagrin of the worst of the companies.  Spotting a hole in the market, a pair of solicitors who handled parking court cases set up a rival trade association the IPC and its appeals body, the IAS.  Yes, the trade association, the body motorists appeal to and the firm of solicitors who cash in are all run by the same people.  No conflict of interest there!  That's who you're dealing with.  If you had complete proof that you were in prison in Australia at the time of the "offence" and the car was scrapped 25 years ago, the IAS would still find a way to reject your appeal. 

 

That's why we always say never to appeal.  It gets you nowhere and most people who appeal out themselves as the driver.

 

Debt Recovery Plus are an uninterested third party with no power to do anything save write silly letters.

 

The fleecers have sent out their paperwork in accordance with the timescales of POFA 2012 to establish keeper liability.  So far so bad but ...

 

I've searched for threads on this company on CAG and we have no record of them ever having the gonads to take a motorist to court.

 

The windscreen ticket is nonsense.  "Illegally parked".  That means you were committing a crime.  What exactly?  Were you selling packets of cocaine from your boot?  Were you parked on top of the pedestrian you had deliberately run over?  it's a nonsense.

 

The signage is unclear as you say.

 

You didn't out yourself as the driver!  Well done.

 

You were denied the right of appeal in breach of the industry code of practice.

 

Ignore the fleecers now, but be sure to come back here if they ever do send you a Letter Before Action/Letter Before Claim.

Edited November 8, 2022 by FTMDave
Self-censoring

[FTMDave]

7 hours ago, BUNNY36 said:

The driver went into the land owner's shop on the day and explained the situation. They said "oh if you had come in and let us know you were a customer of next door we would have stop the ticket from being issued."

The landowner is the organ grinder.  UK Parking Control Office are the monkey.  At any time the landowner can call their dogs off.  The driver should go back, remind the landowner of the conversation and demand they get the ticket cancelled.

[FTMDave]

Thanks for the PDF.  The Google Maps image makes things even clearer.  The area looks like one continuous car park to any visitor. 

 

What you have going for you.

 

1.  UK Parking Patrol Office seem to be a small company that don't do court much (of course they might start!)

 

2.  You weren't the driver.

 

3.  The PCN is pants with its "Illegally parked".

 

4.  The signs are pants.  No sign when entering the car park as there's nowhere to put one.  Two small signs away from the door that could be easily missed (and were).  Even if they were seen they witter on about a permit which doesn't exist.

 

5.  The government Code of Practice states that when car parks are adjacent the boundary must be clearly shown.

 

6.  Mitigation.  A party is supposed to avoid legal action if necessary.  The only way the PPC's bod can have known the driver wasn't a customer of the bath & shower showroom is if they saw the driver going into the car showroom.  They could easily have asked the driver to move and freed a space up for the landowner's customers but did none of that.

 

7.  You're right, 03:45 is three o'clock in the morning, 15:45 is three in the afternoon.

 

8.  You were denied the right to appeal due to the incompetence of the company in not checking its e-mails properly.

Greenford Road.pdf

Edited November 8, 2022 by FTMDave
Typo

[FTMDave]

So ignore any deforestation the fleecers do now, but never ignore a Letter Before Claim.

 

Re post 14: is there any reason the driver won't do this?  There could be an easy way to instantly bat this off.

[FTMDave]

Your snotty letter is superb - but end it at  where I shall be sure to request an unreasonable costs order under CPR 27.14(2)(g).

 

Write at the bottom COPIED TO UK PARKING PATROL OFFICE LTD and invest in two 2nd class stamps and get two free Certificates of Posting from the post office - at the end of the 30 day period.

 

 

[FTMDave]

On 26/06/2023 at 03:03, BUNNY36 said:

5.  The Claimant is attempting double recovery by adding an additional sum not included in the original offer.  i presume this is applicable as they are charging £50 legal representative fees ?

No, they are entitled to claim the £50 legal representative's fees.

They are not entitled to the £60 Unicorn Food Tax they have added to the original "debt".

Can you please answer dx's point about the £107?  It is important.

[FTMDave]

On 28/06/2023 at 00:00, BUNNY36 said:

@FTMDave the parking ticket was for £100 but would have been £60 if paid within the discount period. It seems a little excessive to me but would this still count as double recovery?

The best thing you can do is read threads by others in the same position so you gen up on the court process.

The fleecers, sadly, have won a legal precedent that they are allowed to charge £100.  That is discounted to £60 if a motorist gives in and pays promptly.  If they don't pay promptly the sum returns to £100.  This is all legit.

The charlatans then routinely put up the amount to £160 and this is what is not legit, in fact it is expressly forbidden by Schedule 4 of POFA 2012.  This is the double recovery.  They are claiming £50 legal costs (allowed) and then just inventing another £60 load of costs (not allowed).  We generally ridicule them and refer to this £60 as the Unicorn Food Tax.

[FTMDave]

Yes, the defence is fine, file it when you want.

[FTMDave]

Your Witness Statement is months away but it's to your great credit that you want to draft something now.

[FTMDave]

If you want to start drafting a WS this early, your arguments need to be, more or less.

RUBBISH  PCN  Contradictory address.  Contradictory times.  States you were involved in criminality.  No real chance of appeal given the criminality is not explained.

INSUFFICIENT & CONFUSING SIGNAGE  It states permits but in reality permits are not needed and the parking area is not clearly separated from adjacent areas.

MITIGATION  A party is supposed to avoid legal action if possible.  The only way the PPC's bod can have known the driver wasn't a customer of the bath & shower showroom is if they saw the driver going into the car showroom.  They could easily have asked the driver to move and freed a space up for the landowner's customers but did none of that.

BREACH OF INDUSTRY CODE OF PRACTICE  You were given no right of appeal.

NO KEEPER LIABILITY  All the reasons LFI states.

NO LOCUS STANDI  The fleecers are not the landowner.

PROHIBITION  Again, LFI has explained.

ILLEGAL  SIGNAGE  No planning permission for the signs.

ABUSE OF PROCESS  Making up £60 Unicorn Food Tax.

Edited August 15, 2023 by FTMDave
Typo