NFS Screeding Ltd, Company Registration No. 8945777 (Need for Screed) - **Judgment debt paid**

[MrPengu1n]

Hi All!

 

Can you advise and guide me?

 

Situation - 

 

I appointed a floor screeding company to screed a specified area of my downstairs floor.

 

Job was completed by company (will share later if necessary).

 

Post installation instructions followed in terms of traffic to screed and drying times.

 

Job was paid via bank transfer upon receipt of invoice.

 

2.5 weeks after floor laid, defects detected (delamination and cracking as a start my list is longer).

 

The Floor screeder attended for inspection and robust discussion ensued about the quality of job.  Amongst other issues it included 2 key points:

1.     use of a product particular as a bonding agent for the floor and screed.  The product used was a liquid DPM.  A liquid can be used in conjunction with a bonding agent on top (once dried with required coats applied and sand blinded etc) but is not a bonding agent itself.  The product was applied by broom and screed was laid on top within minutes.

2.     The depth of the screed applied is way too shallow.  Declared by the screeder to be 10mm but its obvious is some spots is only 2 or 3 mm.  The depth does not confirm to the British Standards BS 8204 for the type for screed laid.

 

Following the site inspection and discussion, the screeder is only prepared to acknowledge and address the spots of delamination.  I’ve since counted 10 separate areas of delamination.  This is a sign the whole thing is doomed.

 

I’ve contacted some other ‘larger’ screeding companies and shared the situation including pictures.  They have declared that the only option to correct is to remove the screed that was laid, remove the liquid DPM and then relay a new screed using correct bonding products and correct depth floor screed.

 

At this time I’ve drafted a formal complaint letter to the screeder (is a registered company on companies house) highlighting all of the issues I had raised and concluding that the floor has not been laid correctly using appropriate materials.

 

I’ll post all the letter and appendix materials here later.

 

(in addition they also left a stain on my astroturf from the liquid DPM)

 

I’ve not sent the letter just yet (needs a final proof read) but given the screeders attitude I’m fairly certain it wont be fruitful in terms of a result for me.

 

I think I have the basis for a case in a small claims court, I’d appreciate any advice on what to do next.

 

Regards, Mr P

[BankFodder]

Please tell us the name of the company you are dealing with and also how much you paid to them for the job. Also when did this happen?

I'm afraid it's going to be complicated.

You will have to start off by getting an independent examination of the quality of the job which hopefully will confirm your view that the work is defective and will also identify why it is defective and whether there are any remedial solutions or whether the work needs to be undone and then redone.

You will also need to get to independent quotations for the remedial work or for the removal of the floor and replacing to a proper specification.

These quotations need to be given by somebody who did not carry out the initial inspection. If you have to pay for the inspection or for the quotations then as long as what you suspect is borne out, then you will be able to recover this money from the original company which did you work.

Let's have some more information please

[MrPengu1n]

Thanks for the comments - 

 

The work was carried out by NFS Screeding Ltd, Company Registration No.  8945777  (Need for Screed) on 5th October 2022.

 

NFS SCREEDING LTD overview - Find and update company information - GOV.UK

FIND-AND-UPDATE.COMPANY-INFORMATION.SERVICE.GOV.UK

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NFS SCREEDING LTD - Free company information from Companies House including registered office address, filing history, accounts, annual return...

 

The price quoted and paid was £900 (the invoice was actually higher as they forgot to add VAT to the quote but honoured the price quoted).

 

I have  already contacted two large screeding companies who are due to provide me quotation's for remedial works, both of which suggested this is the required course of action given the details I had shared, so I guess they are no longer independant

 

In terms of getting an independent examination of the quality of the job, should this be another screeding company, a structural engineer or someone involved in building control (by that I mean would any suffice or must it come from a particular one of these)?

 

Thanks for your comments and direction!

 

MrP

[BankFodder]

I understand that the quotations which are to be provided to you have been made without a direct examination of the work.

I think you will need to organise a visual inspection which you need to send to the other side and which provides  a detailed opinion and photographs.

 

I'm afraid I don't know who is best placed to do this. I have no expertise in this area.

However I'm sure that the inspirational will cost money.

 

It might be an idea to write to NFS ltd and put them on notice that you are taking this action and that you are enquiring costs on their behalf which they will be required to reimburse when the matter is settled. 

 

You can tell them they can avoid this if they will engage with you on this matter and take up the obligations in a responsible way.

 

You can can let them have at least one of the quotations which you have already put in hand and suggest to them  that if they don't engage and you will commission an independent report and which will probably incur a fee as a precursor to beginning a legal action.

 

This then give them a final opportunity to avoid expense and also you'll be able to demonstrate that you have always kept them fully informed about your intentions and about costs which might be incurred on their behalf.

 

I have to say that I feel uncomfortable about any company which is prepared to give quotations based simply on a verbal account of the work needed by a client who has no particular expertise in the matter.

 

While all of this is taking place you should start making sure that you are familiar with the steps needed to bring an action in the county court.

 

It is straightforward but it is worth being properly prepared so that you're confident about the steps you are taking.

 

Based on what you have said about the cost of the work, it may well be that you will incur the same amount again to to undo their work and then a further £900 also to to carry out the work again.

 

So you may be looking at a small claim for about £3,000 also no but you really would need to proper quotations based on visual inspection before you bring a legal action.

 

 

Also when you contact your screed company you should offer them their own opportunity to carry out a visual inspection.   You need to make sure that this is set out in writing and you need to bend over backwards to act reasonably towards them.

 

You're only other problem will be whether you have confidence in them so that if they offer to carry out their own remedial work whether you feel happy about letting them do this.

 

In principle you should give them this opportunity if they ask.

 

Frankly I would feel unhappy about it but you may not have a lot of choice. Although I think that it would be reasonable to explain to them that you are happy to let them carry out their own inspection and to propose their own solution but that you would require their solution to be subject to independent third party supervision which would also incur costs which they would have to face..

 

I can imagine but they would not be happy about this proposal and I think that this puts you in a position where you can say that you have acted reasonably  towards him in view of the circumstances also you have made a proposal which is a reasonable proposal to protect your own interests given their initial breach of contract

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[MrPengu1n]

Thanks again for the advice and comments - I've included below a draft of my letter to NFS which I'll give them 14 days to respond to.

 

I'm going to reach our to a some people I've had dealing with on the planning, structural engineering and 3rd party wall agreement side of things to see if they can point me towards someone who can complete the independent report.

 

Have a read and let me know if I've covered it all -

 

Dear [NAME] (director NFS Screeding Ltd),

 

I am formally writing to you following our in person conversation at my address of [ADDRESS] on 25^th October 2022, in regards to the screed floor you (NFS Screeding Ltd) laid at the aforementioned address on 5^th October 2022.

 

On 22^nd September 2022 you visited my address to site survey and quote for the purpose of laying a screed floor to my circa 1965 era house.

 

The screed floor was to be laid to the living room, hallway including understairs, lobby and downstairs WC (see appendix A of ground floor plan showing areas for screeding).

 

At the time of the visit, the floor was a bare slab with just a single piece of unpinned carpet covering a section of the hallway.  You were able to roll back the carpet and inspect the substrate.

 

On 2^nd October 2022, I queried with you via WhatsApp the suitability of some sections of the substrate in the hallway to be covered in screed (see Appendix B for message details).  In response, you called me the following day to advise the method and materials you would use would mean that there would be ‘no issues’.

 

Prior to the screed floor being laid, the floor area had been cleared and removed of nonfriable materials and any laitance.  No chemicals or liquids had been applied to the substrate.

 

The lower section of the stair case was suspended to allow screeding under the area where the bottom step would rest on the floor (see appendix C of pictures showing the areas of the floor immediately before the screed was laid).

 

You came to my property with another person (assumption an employee of NFS Screeding Ltd) on 5^th October 2022 and laid a sand and cement-based screed floor with Mapescreed 704 additive, to the floor areas specified.

 

After the floor had been laid, your instructions were to avoid foot traffic for 24 hours and that it would be fully dried after seven days, at which point floor coverings could be applied.  I asked you about setting the stairs down to the screed and you advised it would be fine after 48 hours.

 

No foot traffic was set to the floor until in excess of 72 hours.  The lower section of the stair case, which has previously been suspended to allow of screeding under the area where the bottom step would rest on the floor, was not set to the screed floor until in excess of 8 days (see appendix D for pictures of the screed taken within an hour of being laid).

 

On the 12^th October 2022 I received your invoice of £900 for the works carried out 5^th October, 2022 for: ‘Supply and install fast dry bonded screed at [ADDRESS]’, (invoice 56879 dated 10^th October 2022) and promptly paid this in full, via bank transfer on 13^th October 2022 (see attached appendix E for copy of invoice).

 

On 22^nd October 2022 I became aware of an area of the laid screed in the hallway that had begun cracking and delaminated. I messaged you via WhatsApp the same day and asked what you would do about this.  You visited my property subsequently on 25^th October 2022 for an inspection.

 

On your visit of 25^th October 2022, I raised the following issues with you:

 

1.     Use of in appropriate bonding agent between substrate and screed:

You used Wickes own brand liquid DPM as a bonding agent, applied by broom directly to the substrate and laid the screed directly on top within minutes.

This product and method of bonding screed is not suitable as this product is not designed or intended to be a screed bonding agent.

 

2.     Excessive Cracking:

Areas around door frames and across the floor areas are cracking.  In particular in areas where there is foot traffic and under the foot of lower section of staircase (which had been rested on a wooden sheet to avoid direct contact with the screed.  In some areas cracking lines join up.

 

 

3.     Depth of Screed laid:

You confirmed that you had laid the floor screed to a depth of 10mm.

A 10mm depth of a sand and cement-based screed is less that half of the required depth as per British Standard BS-8204 (normal depth 40mm with a minimum of 25mm).

There are areas of the WC where screed has simply flaked off revealing that screed depth laid in that area is no more that 2 to 3mm in places.

 

4.     Delamination of screed from subfloor:

At the time of your visit on 25^th October, four areas of delamination were detected.

As of 28^th October, ten individual areas have been detected.  In addition note the areas of WC floor that have flaked revealing the substrate covered in the Wickes own brand liquid DPM.

 

5.     Levelling of screed throughout the area laid:

During your visit of 25^th October, I used your laser level to show you that the levelling throughout has many variations.  One particular variation is at least up to 15mm in an area less than 2 meters, which is not in keeping with British Standard BS-8203.  The example discussed on your visit of 25^th October 2022 pertained to a section of the lobby area.

 

6.     Overall finish of surface:

The finish to the surface is furrowed and pitted in places.  This is not a reasonable expectation of a screed finish.

 

7.     Staining/damage to astroturf:

While laying the screed floor on 5^th October, a deposit of the Wickes own brand liquid DPM was left on my Astro turf lawn by you or you associate.  I attempted to remove this with chemicals however is has left a stained.

 

Of the above points, you have advised you would only address the delamination areas and ‘look at’ what could be one about the stain to the astroturf.

 

 

Nothwithstanding any of the issues raised other than the inappropriate method and materials used in attempting to bond the screed and screed depth itself, there are no remedial actions that can be taken to the screed floor you have laid, in its current state, to correct them.  i.e. a suitable bonding agent and method cannot be retrospectively applied; the floor screed height cannot be increased to the correct levels on top of the existing screed.

 

Therefore, the only available option is to mechanically remove the screed floor that you have laid and remove the liquid DPM to then have an appropriate bonding agent applied and suitable screed applied and levelled to the required British Standards (i.e. BS-8203 and BS-8204).

 

As a result, I therefore require you, at your cost to:

·       Mechanically remove the defective screed floor that you have laid, using an appropriate method.

·       Remove the liquid DPM from the substrate using a suitable method, leaving it in a prepared state to receive new screed floor installation.

 

If you are so prepared, I would also invite you to, at no additional cost to myself, to:

Install a new level screed floor using an appropriate bonding agent and suitable screed applied and levelled to the required British Standards (i.e. BS-8203 and BS-8204) (the work would be subject to a 3^rd party inspection to ensure it has conformed to said standards).

 

If you are not prepared to install the new floor then I would require a subsequent refund of the £900 paid to you by bank transfer on 13^th October 2022.

 

In addition, I require you to address the Astroturf staining by removal of the stain or if the stain cannot be removed then, at your cost, arrange for the section to be replaced to a suitable standard.

 

If you do not wish to engage with me and fulfil your obligations in a responsible way, then I will seek advice and quotations from alternate screed companies to complete the above required works and commission an independent survey to detail and report of the works  NFS Screeding has completed.  Any such costs of obtaining quotations or reports I will seek to reclaim from you in addition to the costs of having the defective laid screed floor removed and re-laid correctly.

 

If you are a member of a professional arbitration scheme, then I am happy to engage in an arbitration process to help bring this matter to a resolution.

 

You may replay to me, in writing, to my home address or via email or WhatsApp if more convenient.

 

Your response to the above is required within 14 days from the date of this letter.

 

Yours sincerely,

 

[BankFodder]

Your letter seems to be highly technical and so it certainly seems as if you are in control of the technology.

 

You have given them a detailed account of the solution that you require. I don't think this is a good idea because if they decide to adopt your solution and it turns out to be wrong then they will be able to say that they have simply followed your instructions.

 

I think you should simply request that they solve the matter but they must come up with their own specification.

 

It is day you must identify the problems and recommend a particular course of action. You can then agree it or not as you wish. However as you have already pointed out in your letter, it should all be subject to third party independent scrutiny, the cost of which they may have to foot.

 

Also, you are only asking for your money back but this does not take into account the cost of removing the present installation and then replacing it with a correctly implemented screed.

 

You should stop doing things on WhatsApp. This is no longer a social media game. This is a serious matter and you should restrict yourself either to email or to written postal correspondence.

 

You have suggested mediation from their own professional body but in our experience, is generally speaking is not very useful and only serves to cause a further delay in the eventual and  inevitable bringing of proceedings before the court

 

 

[MrPengu1n]

Thanks BankFodder, great points - I've amended the draft to remove the exact solution leaving that to NFS to propose.  Also removed reference to the mediation and WhatsApp.

 

Copy pasted below.

 

==================

Dear [NAME] (director NFS Screeding Ltd),

 

I am formally writing to you following our in person conversation at my address of [ADDRESS] on 25^th October 2022, in regards to the screed floor you (NFS Screeding Ltd) laid at the aforementioned address on 5^th October 2022.

 

On 22^nd September 2022 you visited my address to site survey and quote for the purpose of laying a screed floor to my circa 1965 era house.

 

The screed floor was to be laid to the living room, hallway including understairs, lobby and downstairs WC (see appendix A of ground floor plan showing areas for screeding).

 

At the time of the visit, the floor was a bare slab with just a single piece of unpinned carpet covering a section of the hallway.  You were able to roll back the carpet and inspect the substrate.

 

On 2^nd October 2022, I queried with you via WhatsApp the suitability of some sections of the substrate in the hallway to be covered in screed (see Appendix B for message details).  In response, you called me the following day to advise the method and materials you would use would mean that there would be ‘no issues’.

 

Prior to the screed floor being laid, the floor area had been cleared and removed of nonfriable materials and any laitance.  No chemicals or liquids had been applied to the substrate.

 

The lower section of the stair case was suspended to allow screeding under the area where the bottom step would rest on the floor (see appendix C of pictures showing the areas of the floor immediately before the screed was laid).

 

You came to my property with another person (assumption an employee of NFS Screeding Ltd) on 5^th October 2022 and laid a sand and cement-based screed floor with Mapescreed 704 additive, to the floor areas specified.

 

After the floor had been laid, your instructions were to avoid foot traffic for 24 hours and that it would be fully dried after seven days, at which point floor coverings could be applied.  I asked you about setting the stairs down to the screed and you advised it would be fine after 48 hours.

 

No foot traffic was set to the floor until in excess of 72 hours.  The lower section of the stair case, which has previously been suspended to allow of screeding under the area where the bottom step would rest on the floor, was not set to the screed floor until in excess of 8 days (see appendix D for pictures of the screed taken within an hour of being laid).

 

On the 12^th October 2022 I received your invoice of £900 for the works carried out 5^th October, 2022 for: ‘Supply and install fast dry bonded screed at [ADDRESS]’, (invoice 56879 dated 10^th October 2022) and promptly paid this in full, via bank transfer on 13^th October 2022 (see attached appendix E for copy of invoice).

 

On 22^nd October 2022 I became aware of an area of the laid screed in the hallway that had begun cracking and delaminated. I messaged you via WhatsApp the same day and asked what you would do about this.  You visited my property subsequently on 25^th October 2022 for an inspection.

 

On your visit of 25^th October 2022, I raised the following issues with you:

 

1.     Use of in appropriate bonding agent between substrate and screed:

You used Wickes own brand liquid DPM as a bonding agent, applied by broom directly to the substrate and laid the screed directly on top within minutes.

This product and method of bonding screed is not suitable as this product is not designed or intended to be a screed bonding agent.

 

2.     Excessive Cracking:

Areas around door frames and across the floor areas are cracking.  In particular in areas where there is foot traffic and under the foot of lower section of staircase (which had been rested on a wooden sheet to avoid direct contact with the screed.  In some areas cracking lines join up.

 

 

3.     Depth of Screed laid:

You confirmed that you had laid the floor screed to a depth of 10mm.

A 10mm depth of a sand and cement-based screed is less that half of the required depth as per British Standard BS-8204 (normal depth 40mm with a minimum of 25mm).

There are areas of the WC where screed has simply flaked off revealing that screed depth laid in that area is no more that 2 to 3mm in places.

 

4.     Delamination of screed from subfloor:

At the time of your visit on 25^th October, four areas of delamination were detected.

As of 28^th October, ten individual areas have been detected.  In addition note the areas of WC floor that have flaked revealing the substrate covered in the Wickes own brand liquid DPM.

 

5.     Levelling of screed throughout the area laid:

During your visit of 25^th October, I used your laser level to show you that the levelling throughout has many variations.  One particular variation is at least up to 15mm in an area less than 2 meters, which is not in keeping with British Standard BS-8203.  The example discussed on your visit of 25^th October 2022 pertained to a section of the lobby area.

 

6.     Overall finish of surface:

The finish to the surface is furrowed and pitted in places.  This is not a reasonable expectation of a screed finish.

 

7.     Staining/damage to astroturf:

While laying the screed floor on 5^th October, a deposit of the Wickes own brand liquid DPM was left on my Astro turf lawn by you or you associate.  I attempted to remove this with chemicals however is has left a stained.

 

Of the above points, you have advised you would only address the delamination areas and ‘look at’ what could be one about the stain to the astroturf.

 

 

Nothwithstanding any of the issues raised other than the inappropriate method and materials used in attempting to bond the screed and screed depth itself, there are no remedial actions that can be taken to the screed floor you have laid, in its current state, to correct them.  i.e. a suitable bonding agent and method cannot be retrospectively applied; the floor screed height cannot be increased to the correct levels on top of the existing screed.

 

 

To resolve the matter I would require the following to occur, all at your cost:

NFS Screeding Ltd to propose a suitable solution to correct the defective and incorrectly laid floor screed.  The proposed solution will be subject to assessment and consultation for suitability by an independent 3rd party (including written report).  Carry out works to required standards (British and Industry Standards), which will be subject to assessment and inspection by an independent 3rd party (including written report).

 

If you do not wish to engage with me and fulfil your obligations in a responsible way, then I will commission an independent survey to detail and report of the works NFS Screeding has completed.  I will seek advice and quotations from alternate screed companies to complete the required works.  Any such costs of obtaining quotations or reports I will seek to reclaim from you in addition to the costs of having the defective laid screed floor removed and re-laid correctly.

 

In addition, I require you to address the Astroturf staining by removal of the stain or if the stain cannot be removed then, at your cost, arrange for the section to be replaced to a suitable standard.

 

You may reply to me, in writing, to my home address or via email if more convenient.

 

Your response to the above is required within 14 days from the date of this letter.

 

Yours sincerely,

[MrPengu1n]

Update:  I've sent the letter out - I got confirmation of receipt via email in the form of -

 

"Afternoon.  

 

I’ll take a look over this and respond in due course 

 

Thanks Very Much..."

 

Lets see what comes back, if anything.

[BankFodder]

I think that this is a contemptuous response to your letter.

 

 Quite simply telling me that they will have a look at it in due course has been designed to make sure that you don't have any control over the situation.

 

I think it is unfortunate that your response appears to be that you will see what happens.

In other words you seem to be accepting but they should control the timescales.

 

I think that you should set about arranging a proper professional inspection.

 

What date does the 14 days that you gave them in your letter expire?

I suggest that you you make an appointment for a full inspection on about day 15 or 16 and respond to the message that you have just received and tell them that " in due course" is of no interest to you and that the 14-days would you gave them in your letter is running and it expires on xxx date and you have already made an arrangement to have the work inspected on xxx date if they have not responded within the 14 days which you gave them.

 

Tell them as soon as the inspection has been carried out and confirms your view that the work is is defective that you will then be sending them a letter of claim and you will begin legal proceedings without any further exchange of dialogue in the absence of a fully co-operative response from them.

 

I'm afraid that you're passive attitude to the problem and to them is unhelpful and you are simply being taken advantage of.

 

I think you need to start working on changing your mindset

 

 

 

 

[MrPengu1n]

Thanks BankFodder - i've been in contact with 2 companies for a witness/expert report.  One seems not too keen and is due to provide me a price for such services, the other want to have a site inspection first before anything else, which sounds promising.

 

I'm working out a date with the latter and going to speak with them tomorrow to schedule their inspection so they can then lay out what they can do for me.

 

I like your suggestion and have done just that:

================

I acknowledge your reply – “in due course" is of no interest to me.  A reminder that the 14-days I have given you expires on 19^th November 2022.  I am currently making arrangements for site inspections and will commission the go ahead for a report on 20^th November 2022, if you have not taken the required action as laid out in my letter of 5^th November 2022.

 

As soon as the inspection has been carried out and confirms that the work is defective, I will then be sending you a letter of claim and will begin legal proceedings without any further exchange of dialogue in the absence of a fully co-operative response from you.

================

 

I don't intend to hang about here in getting things moving - Christmas has been ruined before its happened with the fact we only have a kitchen and utility room functioning in the whole of the downstairs so as soon as the clock has ticked, I'll be moving ahead.

 

At what point am I able to commission the removal of the screed and new floor to be laid work by an alternate company?  Mrs Penguin and myself would like at least like a re-laid floor before Dec 25th!

 

Appreciate the guidance!

 

MrP

[BankFodder]

Have you told the inspecting companies who the original company is?

[MrPengu1n]

No, the witness/report company are not aware of the name of the screening company who carried out the work (the one they will be reporting on).

[BankFodder]

good.  Keep it that way

[MrPengu1n]

The survey company are coming Friday morning to take a look and tell me what they can do.

 

NFS has replied to my email from yesterday! I need to run through and digest and will then post it here tomorrow with my comments against it. Initial skim through looks to me that he's highlighted he clearly doesn't know what the products he's used, actually do...

[BankFodder]

Please begin by posting his response without any comments.

[MrPengu1n]

NFS response:

==========

 

Good Afternoon

 

As discussed when visiting your house the areas of delamination can be addressed and repaired with relative ease as well as bringing the small area that is raised up, this can be brought down with a small grinder. After thoughts on why this area is a little higher that the rest of the screed I do remember slightly raising I there to bring it in line with the existing screed in that room to allow the build up you require for the 20mm boards and the tile build up, if the screed was low there then there would be a step after your final floor finish was installed. The other consideration there was that there is to be a wall installed between the toilet and this small area completely separating the areas.

 

When I first visited the house you expressed concerns about the fact there may not be adequate DPM under the existing slab, this is why I chose this particular product that we have used on many project previously with no issues what so ever as explained to you at the time, you were happy to go down this route. The Liquid dpm was installed exactly to the description, ‘easily applied with a brush’.

 

The screed depth through out is consistent with a minimum depth as per the Mapei 704 data sheet, the British standard that you refer to does not take in consideration for modified screeds that we have used. As for the screed surface there Is no concern for me on this front and any floor covering could be laid on it with no remedial work required.

 

Id like to know the manufacturer of the insulation boards that will be install and the underfloor system that you will be using please.

 

As for our actions, as previously mentioned here and at your house we are happy to come and do the remedial works to repair the small delaminated areas and take the small raised screed area down. This will then be more than adequate to receive the 20mm insulation board with the under floor heating and the final tiled finish. Tuesday the 15^th is when we can come and do this work.

We require the whole area to be empty and any clothes or coats hanging up taken away, this is because there may be a little dust when grinding screed down.

 

Below are my comments, bulleted, for each paragraph.

 

==========START==========

 

Good Afternoon

 

As discussed when visiting your house the areas of delamination can be addressed and repaired with relative ease as well as bringing the small area that is raised up, this can be brought down with a small grinder. After thoughts on why this area is a little higher that the rest of the screed I do remember slightly raising I there to bring it in line with the existing screed in that room to allow the build up you require for the 20mm boards and the tile build up, if the screed was low there then there would be a step after your final floor finish was installed. The other consideration there was that there is to be a wall installed between the toilet and this small area completely separating the areas.

 

• The comment about why the screed is higher makes no sense.
• Final floor heights were not discussed in terms of adjoining rooms.
• The reference to 20mm boards feels spurious as he did not know the board height until after the job was completed and it was discussed when he had been called back regards the issues I raised.
• The point about the wall is an attempt to suggest the floor level between 2 specific points won’t be a problem as there will be a wall between them. 

 

 

When I first visited the house you expressed concerns about the fact there may not be adequate DPM under the existing slab, this is why I chose this particular product that we have used on many project previously with no issues what so ever as explained to you at the time, you were happy to go down this route. The Liquid dpm was installed exactly to the description, ‘easily applied with a brush’.

 

• I questioned if I could paint a liquid DPM on top of the screed he would lay as I advised that there was no DPM under my floor slab, not that there may not be one.
• I wasn’t ‘happy’, I was not unhappy.  I trusted that the materials being used would be appropriate.
• The liquid DPM was not installed correctly.  I queried its used with Wickes (who contacted the manufacturer).  The installation requires 2 coats.  The first coat must be dry before applying the 2^nd.  The 2^nd coat would need to be blinded with sand after application, then dried.  Once the 2^nd coat was dried a 50mm screed can be applied (according to Wickes).

 

 

The screed depth through out is consistent with a minimum depth as per the Mapei 704 data sheet, the British standard that you refer to does not take in consideration for modified screeds that we have used. As for the screed surface there Is no concern for me on this front and any floor covering could be laid on it with no remedial work required.

 

• There is no such product as Mapei 704.  Mapei is the manufacturer.  The product is called Mapescreed 704.
• Mapescreed 704 is a is a plasticising additive that will improve plasticity and workability, reduces porosity and hygrometric shrinkage, accelerates the development of mechanical strength, improves thermal conductivity and reduces drying times.  Nowhere on the Technical Data Sheet does it refer to screed height/depth.
• I spoke to a technical support person at Mapei about this product the day after he visited following my complaint, they confirmed to me that such a product that would strengthen a screed to be as low as 10mm is called a hydraulic binder, not the type of additive that Mapescreed 704 is.  I knew this point before I wrote my letter to NFS knowing that they did not use the correct product and as such he has once again confirmed the wrong product was used, in writing.  I feel this highlights he is unaware that he is using the correct products for the work he undertakes or simply doesn’t care.
• He is correct about the British standard reference to modified screeds.  However the  screed he laid is not modified appropriately.
• The screed depth is not consistent and is even below 10mm in places.

 

Id like to know the manufacturer of the insulation boards that will be install and the underfloor system that you will be using please.

 

• This question wasn’t of concern before he took the job or laid the screed and so it has no relevance now. I feel this information, if shared, would just be used in an attempt to justify that the work completed is ok.  I’m not intending to share this.

 

 

As for our actions, as previously mentioned here and at your house we are happy to come and do the remedial works to repair the small delaminated areas and take the small raised screed area down. This will then be more than adequate to receive the 20mm insulation board with the under floor heating and the final tiled finish. Tuesday the 15^th is when we can come and do this work.

We require the whole area to be empty and any clothes or coats hanging up taken away, this is because there may be a little dust when grinding screed down.

 

• The initial offer was just to repair 2 delaminated areas, which are now at least 10 delaminated areas (I’ve not checked any further since writing the letter), however it seems all these spots are walk way areas, which indicates to me at least that the strength of the screed underload is not suitable.  
• The proposal to ‘take down the small area’ is new.

 

 

==========END==========

 

The proposal he has made, I feel, is not acceptable as it doesn’t address the fundamental issues.

 

Do I now reply to him advising he has used the incorrect products and why, and call him out as a cowboy, as well as reject the offer as being short of what is required?

 

MrP

 

it won't be a report at this stage but a site inspection/assessment to advise what they can do and then I'm expecting a statement of works of what they will do and the fees involved.

 

I'm hoping they would indicate if the job they see is good or bad.

 

Looking forward and thinking about possible outcomes, if NFS continue to contest and don't do as laid out in the letter, I need to consider the grounds or wording to base the claim on.  

 

NFS certainly, in my opinion, did not 'use reasonable care and skill' when they carried out the work.  Is that proved with the reference to the relevant British Standards, and application/usage of the products that were used in the job (i.e. the use of the liquid DPM and incorrect application, no use of screed hydraulic binders)?

 

Am I jumping to gun and should wait until the deadline is passed before getting in to that? - and of course I need to rebuttal his response.

[BankFodder]

Don't worry. We can deal with the wording later on the. It won't be complicated.

 

The important thing is to have inspection which creates a written report which identifies the effects and the solutions needed.

 

You will present that to the original company together with a letter of claim giving them 14 days after which you will begin a legal action.

 

They will have to be given an opportunity to carry out their own inspection and you will have to be prepared to get another inspection by somebody else that provides a corroborating opinion.

 

Start reading up on this forum about the steps involved in taking a small claim in the county court.

 

Also visit the county court money claim website and see about opening up an account

 

 

 

 

[MrPengu1n]

Sorry, its not clear for me if I need to respond to their proposal first, to reject it, and then commission the report as they didn't meet the requirements laid out in my letter?

 

I've created the MCOL account and will have a read up on the process.

 

[BankFodder]

Please can you remind us about the pattern of exchanges to date.

 

Have they responded to all of your messages?  Have they been reluctant to engage?

[MrPengu1n]

My first formal written letter to them was dated 5th Nov (this letter followed an in person discussion about the work on 25th Oct), giving 14 days to address.

They responded via email the same day to acknowledge the receipt.

I sent a response to that initial acknowledgement, as suggested, on 8th November

Their response to my formal letter received via email, on 9th November.

 

That's where we're up to.

 

They have responded, they have not been reluctant to engage.

 

The response is short of what is expected per the letter, they have not addressed the issues of the staining to my astroturf from the liquid DPM product they used, and manage to step on the astroturf with a foot that had been stepped in the stuff!  That's a side point really.

 

[BankFodder]

Okay, nothing much we can do until Friday.

Make sure that the people coming to see it not only suggest solutions but also identify all the defects. This is extremely important

[MrPengu1n]

The surveyor came today to inspect - I told him the chain of events leading up to the floor being laid and told him my findings after the floor had been laid.

 

He took damp readings in addition to inspecting.

 

He pointed out that the DPM that was applied under the screed is ineffective as the floor showed signs of damp.  This point he said would cause further delamination.

 

I'm awaiting his report (expected early next week) but the conclusion was the laid screed, needs to come up and redone.

 

I now need to go back to NFS to reply to their response but what are the next steps from here?

 

I'm keen to get the work completed so would like to appoint someone to do that.  Do I need to wait any further or advise NFS in my response this is what I'm doing and give them a copy of the schedule of works?

 

Keen to get things moving

Edited November 17, 2022 by MrPengu1n

[BankFodder]

I think that you should wait. Make no contact until you have received the report. Then we will draft a letter and send them a copy of the report with the letter.
If there is no satisfactory response in a very short time then you will have to begin a legal action.
You have any idea what the value of the remedial work is going to be?

[MrPengu1n]

Given that NFS has responded with what they were prepared to do as remedial action, and that action is not suitable (based on the surveyor assessment), can I proceed and appoint my own choice of company to action remedial work (remove old screed) and lay the new floor or do I still need to give NFS another opportunity to complete the remedial work?

 

I'd want to avoid having them in the house again to be perfectly frank, but recognise I need to completely reasonable.

 

To remove the old screed: labour, tool hire, skip hire is probably circa 1,500 - I've asked for an itemisation on the quote as it includes all the works (not including a skip) as a final figure.

 

I'll need to add the cost of the report too.

[BankFodder]

It's not much longer.

 

Wait until you have the report and post a copy here. Then we will draft a letter to NFS