German car shop in Leicester wont take car back 8 days after purchase.

[BankFodder]

First of all, the letter of claim you have posted above is not the finished version because you have left XXX in place instead of the details.

Secondly, I've added an extra sentence in red relating to the MOT charge.

Finally, if he wants to arrange an inspection at your storage location – then yes you should agree to it. If he wants it in his location then it's just too bad. You aren't prepared to drive a dangerous car all that way and also because you don't trust in you aren't prepared to release the car to him until you have the reimbursement. This is nonnegotiable.

Of course the dealer doesn't accept the independent report. If the dealer did accept it then you would get your refund.

This is precisely why you are in dispute.

Please will you post up the finished version of the letter of claim. This is about the third time that I've asked you this

[Aga.misia]

Dear German Cars

 

Letter of claim 

As you know, on 22 may 2021 date you sold me a Infinity Q50 model vehicle for 5430 pounds. Within a very few days, the car displayed various defects and an inspection I have had carried out has confirmed a number of serious issues not the least of which are a brake system which is apparently one down to the metal. This may be a cause of the vibrations which I have previously described to you although this will need further investigation.

There has been substantial amount of correspondence between us and you are fully aware of the problems that there are with the vehicle that you sold me but for the avoidance of doubt I am sending you a second copy of the report which has identified the faults. I should point out that the faults contained in this list are simply those which are identified fairly quickly and they may well be others.

I have been advised not to drive the car because it is unroadworthy and also that there is a risk that the problems could get worse. I will not be driving the vehicle although I will be putting it through another MOT in order to get a better picture of the car's condition.

I have already written to you and pointed out that under the Consumer Rights Act I am entitled to a refund. You have refused to carry out your obligations under the Act and given a variety of excuses including that apparently the sale was a "trade sale" and therefore for some reason rather, you have no liability for selling a car in a dangerous and unroadworthy condition.

I require you to make arrangements to collect the vehicle from me and to provide me with a refund. Please note that I have lost confidence in you and therefore I will not be prepared to release the vehicle to you until I have the refund. You can pay this to me by bank transfer or you can ask your delivery driver to pay me the cash.

If you do not collect the vehicle and refund me within 14 days of this letter and I shall start to add storage charges of £10 per day and furthermore I shall issue legal proceedings against you in the County Court without any further notice. These legal proceedings will include references to your statutory obligations under the Consumer Rights Act, your selling of an unroadworthy vehicle which is an offence contrary to the Road Traffic Act and also unfair trading under the Contracts (Protection from Unfair Trading) Regulations 2008.

If you force me to take court action then I shall sue you for the reimbursement of the purchase price of the car, the accumulated storage fees, the ancillary losses which I have incurred – in particular in relation to insurance and tax plus interest which I understand is currently at 8%.  I shall also be applying for reimbursement of the MOT fee.

I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions about this. I've already used my best efforts to hold dialogue with you.

If you wish to have the car inspected by your own independent inspector then please let me know. I'm happy to accommodate any reasonable arrangement by appointment but you should understand that this must be done within the 14 day timescale and at my home because as I have said, at the end of 14 days I shall issue court proceedings.

Yours sincerely

Aga 

 

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Edited May 31, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Okay. Make sure that you change all the colours so that they are black.

Once again – this letter deftly means on day 15 you will issue the claim if your demands are not met. This doesn't mean that they enter into negotiation or they start trying to delay you. This means that they must absolutely agree, they must have paid you back your money and they must have removed the car.

If you have the slightest doubt about taking the legal action on day 15 then do not send this letter because you will only lose credibility. It's not a bluff.

As you have seen, we will help you all the way and you won't be on your own – but you are certainly going to have to do something about your level of confidence. Once you are in the procedure, you will start to find that it's much easier

 

Well done. Start preparing the basics – naming the parties involved et cetera.

It will be a good idea to list here what you are claiming together with the values.

So: cost of the car – £XXX
cost of going to get it and then returning with it £XXX
cost of an MOT or any other inspections £XXX
storage at £10 per day from the date of the claim £– you will simply have to put the daily rate here.
Cost of tax and insurance: £XXX

Anything else?

[Aga.misia]

Briefly explain your claim

Tell us why you believe the defendant owes you money.

Don’t give us a detailed timeline - we’ll ask for that separately.

You’ll have to pay an extra fee if you want to change the details of the claim later.

Can you help what write there pls

 

Quote

 

good afternoon.

 

thankyou for your e-mail. As a business we always comply with consumer rights. however in your case, you have changed your story a number of times. you first stated your friend told you that you paid to much, you then stated the car vibrates, we informed you that it is a diesel and unlike your old petrol car they are slightly different, we also asked you for video evidence which you failed to send. you then stated your brake pads are down to the metal which makes no sense as we already have a report which states the brakes are ok. We have been trading for years and we always ensure our cars are safe before sale. we then asked you for picture and video evidence which again you have failed to give. The report you have sent does not have any pictures or videos of the car. your initial claim was that you paid to much for the vehicle and that your friends car which has 50k miles compared to yours with 170k miles was a better car. 

 

Please do not carry out any work or mot on the car. due to the suspicious circumstance surrounding your claim we will not accept any mot or diagnosis carried out by you or your chosen garages. I am happy to instruct a local independant garage in your area to carry out an inspection on the vehicle to find and gather evidence on any problems if any.. the vehicle may have.

 

i will have this arranged over the next 7-10 woking days, it will require you to take it to the local garage once the appointment has been booked. please state any days/times you are not free over the next 7 working days.

 

kind regards.

 

german car shop.

 

 

 

Please any advice ?

 

This guy is lying.

My prevous car was diesel not petrol  , I only said  told him I felt Like I overpaid - thats what local dealers told me   and when I checked myself on websites. 

Strong Vibration are on steering wheel , seats , are when  I press brakes  or start up car .

Should I send him viedos of vibrations ? Brake pads I will not be able to send  photos. 

[honeybee13]

I don't think you need to act immediately on the dealer's messge, Aga. Best to wait for BankFodder and take this calmly. You'll be OK if you follow his advice.

 

Your court stuff isn't urgent at the moment either, you gave the dealer 14 days from receiving your letter before claim so at the moment as I understand it, you're just getting your claim ready to go after Day 14.

 

HB

[Aga.misia]

Thank you for support

The costs : 

cost of the car – £5430
cost of going to get it and then returning with it £45
cost of an MOT or any other inspections £47
storage at £10 per day from the date of the claim £– you will simply have to put the daily rate here.
Cost of tax and insurance: £ insurance 52,35 , tax 11.37

[BankFodder]

Quote

 

Further to the letter of claim which I sent you dated XXX, I'm now giving you notification of some of the costs which I shall be claiming from you as part of the County Court claim.

They are:

Cost of the car – £5430
Cost of going to get it from you and then returning with it - petrol costs - £45
Cost of an MOT or any other inspections £47

 

Also, as pointed out in my letter of claim, if I do not receive full reimbursement from you at the expiry of the 14 day deadline, then I shall be adding a £10 per day storage fee. This will be calculated by the judge when judgement is given to me.

I have booked a car in for an MOT next Monday and of course I shall let you know the result once the test has been carried out.

You say that you want to carry out your own independent inspection. Of course I would be delighted and I have already suggested this in my letter of claim. However, this will not stop the clock. You have been completely uncooperative in your correspondence with me and you have clear statutory duties. If you want to have an inspection carried out then you should arrange it and let me know. However, the car is in a dangerous condition and I shall not be driving it anywhere. You can arrange to have the inspection carried out at my home where the car is stored or we may possibly be able to arrange for your inspector to collect the car for the purpose of the inspection as long as it is returned.

I should point out now that I would need good security for the return of the car because as I have previously pointed out to you, I don't trust you anymore.

 

Your attempt to brand this as some kind of "trade sale" as an example of your dishonest attempt to try and avoid your obligations to a consumer. You can be certain that this will be brought before the judge and I am quite confident that the judge will not be happy about it.

In addition you need to factor in interest which at the County Court rate is currently calculated at 8%.

Finally, when I received a judgement from the court will be awarded costs.

You have sent me a further email but as I have already pointed out to you, I'm not prepared to get into any further discussion. Carry out your inspection – but let me know. Arrange to collect the car reimburse me and that's the end of the matter.

If you want to reimburse me then I will simply take the price of the car and I will absorb the rest of the costs.

It's up to you
 

 

 

Please check the above email and see if you agree with it and you are prepared to send it. If you are then send it to the dealer immediately. That is your response to the email which you have sent you. As I have already advised you, you should not communicate with them at all other than under our direction.

You can see that the suggested email above does not particularly refer to his message other than to deal with his proposal that an inspection is carried out – which is fine – and that you should drive the car – which is not fine.

You consider the car is unroadworthy and dangerous. You are only allowed to go for an MOT to confirm this. Other than that, it is his responsibility and it's up to him to organise it to collect the car.

Please let's know if you are okay with the proposed message above

 

Please confirm that you have sent it.

 

When you take the car for the MOT - show them the report you have obtained and ask them particularly to look at the brakes.

Also tell them that you are very worried about the general condition of the car because you have just bought it and you suspect it of being unroadworthy

[Aga.misia]

Can I do MOT in same place I got report from ?

[BankFodder]

Yes I don't see why not – but I thought you said you had already booked it?

It would actually be better if you take into a different MOT station so you've got effectively two independent reports

[Aga.misia]

I.already booked there where I got report from . 

 I m not customer there , was first time there last week . 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

I'm suggesting this as the draft particulars of claim – we need to know the result of the MOT so it is not complete yet but please will you have a look at it, check that you think it says everything you need. Please complete the missing figures where the XXX are stop

I'm suggesting that once we agree this, then you will use this particulars of claim where asked you on the moneyclaim website about the details of your claim.

 

Quote

The claimant purchased a XXX model car registration number XXX from the defendant dealer but within eight days it was clear that the car was defective, not satisfactory quality and unroadworthy within the meaning of the Road traffic Act 1988. Confirmed by a recent MOT failure certificate dated XXX. Claimant rejected the car under the Consumer Rights Act 2015 but defendant refused to comply with statutory obligations. Also, the defendant has unfairly traded under 2008 Unfair Trading Regs by trying to represent the sale as a "trade sale". The claimant claims refund of the purchase price £XX plus wasted insurance and tax costs £XXX plus costs of collecting vehicle £XXX plus MOT cost £XX – total £XXX – plus a storage fee of £10 per day from the date of issue of this claim as the claimant is obliged to store the vehicle on her own property. Plus interest pursuant to section 69 of County Courts act 1984. The defendant has been fully informed of all defects and costs and proposed storage fee in the event of their non-compliance with the Consumer Rights Act.

 

[Aga.misia]

Its actualy 6 days car was defective as I bought 22 and got report on 28 june.

I m worried just in case MOT will pass and will by only advisories about breaks then my chances to return car will be very low 

Edited June 2, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Okay – if it six days then change the figure to 6. You need to make sure that it's all correct.

In terms of whether it will pass the MOT – if it passes then we have new issues to look at. But it's very important to be completely honest and straight dealing with the dealer and also with the court.

If by some chance the MOT passes then you may still have a basis for returning the car – but it may be better simply to get the defects repaired and then to claim the cost of those from the dealer.

We will have to see – but make sure you get the MOT done.

One big warning to you – do not get any work done. Even if at the MOT garage they say that they will carry out some repairs. You must refuse.

It's important not to carry are any repairs or to do any work on the car without letting the dealer know first. And you must let us know before that.

I'm going to make a further modification to the proposed particulars of claim. As I have already said, it won't be ready to put into the County Court website until we know the result of the MOT. The MOT is very important – whatever the result.

 

[Aga.misia]

Ok thank you. Also regarding vibrations , I was told by inspector that it will require removing engine etc to find out what is causing it , it may be costly too. Vibrations will probably not get  picked by MOT . Vibrations are not related to brakes I m afraid , that another issue. 

Also in dealer advert I posted dealer stated I about new oil and filters , when I texted him when it was done he didnt reply.

Can I also argue about that : 

You viewed the car before purchasing and agreed (and signed)to purchase it on a trade basis. 

 

that alone imakes the sale void and trading standards would be VERY interested in them

a trader cannot make a trade sale to a member of Joe Public

fullstop.

Edited June 2, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

If the inspector told you this about the vibrations then you must get in writing please. If you don't have in writing then go back to the inspector and get it in writing.

Make a list of all the other faults that you think exist. If you can get inspectors to confirm this. That's excellent. If not, list them out anyway in a separate list.

Post them here.

We are well aware of the fact that the guy has tried to sell to you on a trade basis. I have mentioned that in the particulars of claim. Don't worry we don't need to mention that again for the moment.

[Aga.misia]

When I do MOT I will ask about vibrations and book appointment after MOT ? 

Will that be ok ? Or I have to try to do it this week ? 

On report I posted to you on second row vibrations are mentioned .

Edited June 2, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

No that's fine. Get it done at the MOT because you must not drive the car before then or again afterwards.

When you take into the MOT station – get every inspection you can possibly get done – but especially the MOT certificate. If they want money for any other inspections, then that's fine. You should pay it because I am sure you will get it back – especially if the MOT is a fail.

 

[Aga.misia]

Good morning.

 

Unfortunately we will not be covering your fuel costs neither do we have to by law.

 

The reason we are asking for an independant mot is because you have lied various times since the start of the matter. As you stated on a previous phone call. You know the mechanics personally, and unfortunately we will not accept evidence of somebody you have relations with for obvious reasons.

 

We have asked for evidence of a fault atleast 4 or 5 times, however you keep dismissing our request. A simple video and pictures of the fault will suffice and will mean we can move on with resolving this. 

 

Please stop avoiding the matter.

 

If monday is your free day. I can book the car in for an inspection on that day.  The garage will be an independant garage not known to any of us. They can check the car thoroughly and give both of us feedback. 

 

We can then speak between ourselves and decide on a resolution depending on the outcome of the report.

 

It is within our legal rights to have it inspected. Independantly. And i think it is the best for both of us it us done independantly.

 

Kind regards.

 

German car shop.

 

I dont know the mechanics personally who gave me report , I dont know any mechanics personally . The first one who my boyfriend took I said over phone  its my boyfriend mechanic who didnt perform inspection just had a look  so couldnt find fault . And I said to dealer wibrations arent normal

So I went searching and I saw mechanic  I saw outside his garage  ( who dont do auto cars )so he   recommended thr place I went and got report from   . How can I prove it ?

Edited June 2, 2021 by Aga.misia

[BankFodder]

Send them this – straightaway:

 

Quote

I have already pointed out that I have booked the car in for an MOT on that day. It will not be available for anything else on that day.

I have also pointed out to you that I am very happy that you carry out an inspection but it will have to be at my address where the vehicle is stored or else you will have to arrange it to be collected and transported to your inspector and then returned subject to a satisfactory security that the car will be returned.

I have also said to you that I'm not prepared to enter into any further discussions or negotiations with you.

There are only two satisfactory outcomes – you arrange to collect the car before the expiry of my letter of claim deadline and reimburse me as outlined and you can save yourself some money – or else we go to court and I will get judgement from you for everything including all costs reasonably incurred in respect of the vehicle plus interest at 8%.

You choose

 

[Aga.misia]

Is it possible to mention in letter about me not knowing the place I went to ? My God why he says thats my mechanics ? I never been there before 

[BankFodder]

No. Don't respond to his provocations. Just send him the message that I have suggested. If you start trying to make responses to the points he makes, then he knows that he has hooked you.

Just send the message as I suggested. Stick to the plan. Don't change.

[Aga.misia]

Done  , your help mean so much to me   thank you 

From Dealer response : 

 

Again you have ignored my various requests to send picture and video evidence.

I am very suspicious to why you are unable to send a simple picture or video of the faults.  

 

I would strong suggest that instead of trying to be non compliant.

You work with us rather then against us.

Who ever is writing your e-mails for you is not helping.

 

Shouting demands at us will not help you in any way.

However if you simply comply to our requests.

Then we can resolve your issues.

 

Now Please send me the garage details you have booked the mot in with.

The garage name and full address.

 

I also assume that you will be transporting the vehicle to the mot station on monday? 

 

Kind regards. 

 

 

[slick132]

Hi Aga,

 

Stick with the advice from @BankFodder and make no response to the dealer unless BF recommends it.

 

Just ignore the comments and demands and follow BF's advice above.

[BankFodder]

I suggest you send:

 

Quote

You know full well that I am an ordinary consumer despite your attempts to suggest this is some kind of "trade sale", whatever that might mean. I have no expertise and no professional knowledge or understanding of vehicle technology.
I am unable to take photographs myself. However, I will ask the garage next week to take photographs if that is possible.

Just to confirm, that I would not have moved along so quickly of this matter had you been cooperative at the outset but you have not. Your immediate position was denial and to deny me my rights. Of particular concern is the fact that you have attempted to represent my purchase of this vehicle is some kind of "trade sale".
We both realise that this is simply some kind of device which you hope to use to escape your consumer rights obligations.
Meanwhile the invitation to you to organise your own inspection still stands.

You will receive full details of the inspection and the MOT next week when I will provide you with the result of the tests – pass or fail.

You can rely upon me to be honest and straight throughout.

 

[Aga.misia]

Thank you

Thats his reply : 

Please read back through the e mails. I do not recall saying you have no consumer rights.

 

Incorrect.

Your immediate position was... as you stated "my friend said i paid to much".

Your initial claim was to reject the car under 14 cooling off period because someone told you the car was to expensive..

 

the vehicle was purchased at normal retail money.   

When you realised that you could not hand it back based on a cooling off period (because u did not click and collect).

 

You started talking about faults.. then you mentioned brake pads.

Which is very odd because we already checked them.

And we have a report to back it up.

We have been in the trade many years and are very wise to these sort of tricks. 

 

Now please send the garage details immediately.

You have no reason not to hand them over unless you are trying to hide something?

 

Address and name please.

 

Many thanks.