Anglia Water CCJ's/CO's, Order Of Sale for +10yrs of backdated Surface water charges i'd either paid or are bogus. i lost everything.

[Guest wino]

I just don't understand how a judge who is obviously intelligent enough to gain the qualification of Judge, cannot figure out that if you are on say only £50 per week you cannot possibly afford £150 per week.

 

I really do not know what else you can do if you have already applied to have the installments reduced and have been turned down. Did the court give a reason why?

[meursault22]

That's because judges earn billions of pounds for not much work and can't sympathize at all with someone who has a heart and not much money. They pass costs judgements of what to me is a whole year's income but to them is less than a day's pay. To make it worse, the costs are calculated on some obscene hourly rate for just sending a few standard format letters.

 

I even suggested that the water company could give me a job and take what they want out of my salary, but that suggestion was declined. It's funny, but I did ask for a reason that all my efforts at resolution were denied, but the judge said that the court did not have to give reasons for judgement.

 

based on the judges I've encountered, you don't need to be smart to be a judge but just have strong sociopathic tendencies and and an overwhelming desire for money and power.

[Nagasis]

Anglian Water obtained a court order for their charges for corresponding with the Consumer Council for Water

 

I don't understand how you can be charged for complaining to the CCW. Anglia water recommend CCW if you are not satified with their response. CCW is free and is a public body.

 

You state you have already paid 2500 with 1900 outstanding, all that for correspondence?

[meursault22]

It's all costs awarded to the claimant and about half is for correspondence with the Consumer Council for Water and my MP. The rest is for court fees and Anglian Water's solicitors fees.

 

I'm just preparing to start action against the CCW because they claimed initially that it is a free service and did not warn me that there could be any charges resulting from contact with the CCW let alone a charging order and order of sale and warrant of execution proceedings.

 

I don't understand it either, but it's happened and it sends a clear message from the privatized water companies that they can treat their customers however they please because if you try to complain they'll take you to the cleaners. It's about time the monopoly of water supply is stopped.

[meursault22]

Can anyone give a brief rundown on what is required for a debt to be legally sold?

 

I have a default CCJ from Northampton Bulk Court because I was unaware of the hearing. Since it is for a small amount, I was advised that it would be more expensive to try to defend it than to pay it.

 

The thing is that all the money I paid was supposedly taken up with administration costs with the debt never getting any smaller even after having paid several times the original amount.

 

This debt was then sold to a DCA who have gone completely berserk with court action, charging orders for the debt, then for court costs, orders of sale etc... etc...

 

They are breaking many rules but the local court seems completely on their side. The debt agreed by the court has now spiralled into a huge amount and they are demanding even more that has not as yet been ordered by the court.

 

The DCA claim to be solicitors representing the original utility, and the utility claim that they are not solicitors representing them but a DCA who now own the debt and are acting completely from their own initiative.

 

What paperwork do I need to request to prove who is being truthful?

Is it possible to prove the DCA are acting illegally?

 

I am on JSA and don't have any money left at all as I have paid everything I can and have even suffered a stress related stroke. My doctor has written a letter saying that this is almost certainly due to the actions of the DCA and that their continued action puts my health at serious risk. All concerned, including the judge have simply ignored this letter and my lack of income and carried on piling on the debt.

 

 

 

Edited February 7, 2010 by meursault22

[silverfox1961]

Morning,

 

Your post has confused me. (not that hard )

 

You say that they got a CCJ without your knowledge yet you then go on to say that you were advised not to defend the case. Could you clarify a little

 

fox

[meursault22]

When I found out the judgement was made against me, some time after the Northampton Bulk court hearing, the CAB reckoned that to get a solicitor to challenge the judgement would cost far more than paying it.

 

So I guess I mean defending it in retrospect.

Seems unfair because it wasn't money that was owed and was to do with a disputed bill at the time.

[fuzzybobble]

You can get the CCJ removed as you didn't get the court documents. (DCA's have a habit of sending them to an old address. Quite a few of them try this tactic, so they win judgement by default.) You won't need a solicitor, as with help from the right people on here who have done this kind of thing before, you can do it all yourself. As you are on Jobseekers, you can get a form from the court, so you won't have to pay any court fees to do it.

[silverfox1961]

I agree with Fuzzybobble.

You need to be put back in the situation you were in before the judgement.

 

I do believe it's a N244 to get the judgement set aside and it is form EX160 to get your fees paid (as you're on JSA)

[meursault22]

Thanks.

From advice here, I've submitted six N244 forms, (and EX160)

two were ignored (yet to hear anything back)

two were declined (suggesting a high court appeal instead )

and the fifth was sent back with more questions about my financial status, which I answered the same day but have heard nothing more

and the sixth has been granted a hearing.

 

Action against me has been stepped up though, and I need to fight that in the meanwhile.

 

I've also been trying to get the hearings moved closer to my accommodation but for some reason, this hasn't been agreed to.

[fuzzybobble]

Sounds like you need to phone the court and find out exactly what's going on. Seems to me there is a mix up somewhere.

 

 

As for the DCA massively increasing the debt. What was the original debt for? Might be worth finding out if the original contract/terms and conditions allows them to do this. Maybe a counter claim for the unlawful charges they added so far?

[meursault22]

The problem is that the hearings have all been in this little court in a one horse town where everyone at least knows everyone else and is probably married to someone else involved too. Foreigners, of which I am one are frowned upon.

 

Foreigners owning a house are considered the enemy. You are quite right fuzzybobble, that money has been added that is not strictly allowed by law, but if the judge allows it, there it is! If the judge allows it to remain in place after a second hearing and then tells me the only path left is high court appeal which will cost a huge amount of money and that he is attaching a note to the file suggesting that any appeal should fail, what do you do?

 

What I really need to know is what is legally required to sell a debt to a DCA so I can find out if this has been done as the utility and DCA are telling vastly different stories. I just want to find out exactly who I'm dealing with.

[fuzzybobble]

Sounds like you need help from the forums resident experts.

[fuzzybobble]

Have asked the mods for some help, so hopeully someone with the required know how will be along help.

[meursault22]

Thanks.

[caro]

There's some advice on CCA's here.

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/general-debt-issues/162851-consumer-credit-agreements-guide.html#post1747470

 

There is also useful advice on the National Debtline site including fact sheets covering a range of issues. Might be worth giving them a call too.

 

National Debtline England & Wales | Debt Advice

[meursault22]

Thanks Caro,

the trouble is that the "debt" is from a water company. Even though it is not for water bills, but administration costs, letters, court costs etc... they claim it's a statutory charge and not covered by the Consumer Credit Act 1974

 

My problem is that the water compay claim that they have sold the debt to a DCA but the DCA claim that they are solicitors working under instruction from the water company.

 

How do I find out who is telling the truth? The two parties are both claiming that it's the other one making the decisions.

 

If the debt is sold to a DCA, does the Consumer Credit Act then come into play?

Edited February 10, 2010 by meursault22

[supasnooper]

The Consumer Credit Act does not cover utility debts.

 

You can ask the court to move any hearings to a Court location of your choice.

A call to the Court and they should tell you how this can be done.

 

I would also advise writing to the DCA\Solicitors asking for a statement of the account.

If they fail to provide it, then send them a SAR.

[Undercover-Elsa]

Hi meursault,

As far as I'm aware the CCA has no bearing here whether sold to a DCA or not, unfortunately.

The best way to get all the info you require is to send a Subject Access Request to the Water Board and DCA demanding ALL the data they hold on you.

Regards,

Elsa x

[meursault22]

Thanks.

I'll have to look further into this. I have been told by the court that the judge won't allow the hearings to be transferred! I've applied for each hearing to be transferred withing 14 days of receiving the notice of hearing and each time the application for transferral has been turned down.

 

Is there a law that states that hearings can be moved? I can't find it if there is.

I have also requested a SAR from both the water company and DCA and received no response.

Surely if the debt had been sold I should have at least been notified?

 

Guess I'll send another request.

 

Thanks to Elsa for advice as well

[caro]

Sorry I missed that it was a utility bill in your first post, but the NDL may be able to assist anyway. I agree a SAR is a good idea.

[meursault22]

By the way, can anyone think of a good reason as to why a court or judge would refuse hearings to be heard at a different court?

 

...and now they're threatening to go for bankruptcy as well, so that will make, two charging order, an order of sale, warrant of execution and bankruptcy. They don't like me much do they?

 

I've sold everything of value that I own and given them to money to try and get them to stop this nonsense, but they seem to think that if they keep shaking me, they'll find pearls in the bottom of all my pockets.

 

Oh, and they're threatening prison as well! I didn't know that happened any more.

 

Any advice gratefully received as I can't see a way forward.

 

Despite submitting a detailed income, expenditure form, I was ordered to pay costs to Anglian Water that I have no way of paying over an order of sale hearing. I was refused a redetermination hearing because apparently I didn't use exactly the right wording in my letter and by the time it came to reapplying, it was past the 14 day deadline.

 

I have already sold everything I had of value and given them them the money, but it only covered just over half. I have no way of paying any more than I already am paying, but they keep taking me to court and each time, nearly a thousand quid extra is added for their costs. They have secured all this with a charging order and keep going for an order of sale, but there is no equity in my home.

 

Amongst other things I have been threatened with bankruptcy and prison.

 

I have no other outstanding debts apart from this costs judgement but it's rapidly spiralling out of control.

 

For each hearing I have applied to have it moved to the court closest to my accommodation, but each time that has been refused by the judge.

Is there any way forward?

[vjohn82]

How much was the original debt for???

[middenmess]

I think that if you could post up the details of all these orders and charges and interest the caggers might be able to make suggestions that might help you.

 

Scan in all of the various orders minus personal details so that we can see what has happened to you.

[meursault22]

I've paid 2,600 so far with £2,200 costs outstanding.