Rail fare evasion fraudster gave my name and address

[BankFodder]

In addition to dealing with the individual problems that this person is creating for you, you obviously need to deal with it holistically because there is a problem of identity fraud which may well continue and will certainly affect you and your family throughout your lives.

Nobody should underestimate the seriousness of this kind of thing.

Although people will commonly apply the label of "identity theft", what you are actually dealing with here is "identity fraud" and it is well understood in academic circles.

The police were quite wrong to say that there was nothing they could do. I'm afraid that this reflects under-resourcing coupled with poor staff development and a poor attitude.

There are offences being committed here and the girl herself is committing fraud contrary to sections 1(2a), & 2 of the Fraud Act 2006  https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2006/35/contents

 

Of course the police will find it very difficult to do anything and given their resources, I suppose they have other priorities. However, you could be certain that if your family was related to the head of the local police force, they would be dealing with it PDQ.

You say that this has been going on for a number of years – but you don't say how long. Maybe you had better give us a detailed account of what has happened. Please set out in a bullet pointed chronology so that we don't have too much narrative but a good structured idea of what has happened. This should include a list of the problems which have occurred and how they have been dealt with and also complaints which you have attempted to make.

You definitely need to start taking this very seriously. How old is your daughter?

In terms of opening mail, you should open every letter that comes to you and if you find that it is associated with this fraud, then you should photocopy it/scan it into a computer and start building up a file. I hope you have kept some of the correspondence and other documents which you might have received. Please let us know what you have.

You are definitely going to have to start accumulating a robust file of evidence and I suggest that the first thing you do is you start sending SARs out to all of the organisations which have been involved and see if you can tease out of them any personal data that they might have which is apparently linked to you.
Either they will provide you with a statutory disclosure – or, of course, it will be amusing if they say that they are more proof of your identity and that they won't let you have the disclosure because they are not satisfied that the data they have relates to you.

I don't think you're in a position to make any serious complaint until you have put together a convincing file of evidence which shows that there is systematic identity fraud. We will help you to start to do this and help you to structure the file that you will put together and then we can begin to explore avenues to make a complaint.

It also occurs to me that they could be a basis here for making a complaint under the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 although this would be an unusual application of the act – but we can have a look when you put together your file.



 

[BankFodder]

I think that you could probably take some advice from what we have written about organising your court bundle <<<<<<<<

 

In particular the system of indexing your documents so that one begins with the cover sheet in which it is clear what all of the contents of the file are.

Also maybe a bullet pointed summary of everything that has happened over the years with references back to the index sheet and also to the evidential documents contained inside it. Those evidential documents should be reference back to the index and also back to the structured summary.

Put up the bullet pointed chronology here and we will have a look – but also that may well form the basis of your structured summary.

The more methodical your document file is, the more accessible it will be and the more of an impact it will be when we decide what to do with it.

[BankFodder]

Any update???

[BankFodder]

I'm sorry that you have been upset about it. I think you are very justified feel that way.

Before I start answering, can I please point out that this is the second time that you've posted a solid block of text. It's very difficult for people to read and to give you the enthusiastic support that you deserve.

In your first post, – which was very long – one of the site team restructured it so that it was legible. We don't really have time to do this kind of thing and so please would you make sure that in future your posts are properly spaced and punctuated and that will encourage people to view your story and to give you the advice that you need.

 

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

Also, now that I have restructured your post I see that you have recognised that your posts are not properly spaced because you don't have a computer. You can still use the paragraph return with a phone and it will make it much easier.

[BankFodder]

You obviously have a very serious situation here. Is there any chance that this problem might be being caused by somebody that you know?

In future you should open all letters and copy them and then return them to the sender but make sure you have a copy. This is very important.

I understand that the three of you are being targeted. I am saying "targeted" because it is too much of a coincidence that you are all the subject of the same kind of identity theft/identity fraud committed by different people.
This suggests very strongly to me that there is one person who is doing this and the fact that this person is doing this to all three of you also suggests very strongly that it is somebody who is known to you.

I would find it difficult to imagine that there could be any other explanation.

Have you got a list of the companies that have become involved because of this problem?

Please could you post up a list here

[BankFodder]

Who advised you not to do a statutory declaration – on the basis that you probably knew what was going on because you suspected the contents of an unopened letter?

 

Also, you have a daughter, now aged 27. Do you have any other children?
What I am asking really is whether this is the whole family which has been targeted or are there others who have not?

 

 

Have you and your family checked your credit files? I think you should do

[BankFodder]

Also, I should explain to you that we move very quickly on this kind of thing. We are going to take a very assertive approach and we need you to respond very quickly to our questions in our posts. Apart from anything else it's been going on far too long and you have been upset – probably, in part, because you feel a certain helplessness.

We will help you to take control and we will help you to set the timescale for events – but this means that you have got to follow the thread very closely and respond very quickly.

Responding on telephone is fine. Lots of people do – but you will have present your posts in a clear and intelligible way.

Also, we may need to see documents and these should be scanned. Do you have a scanner?

 

I assume you have a printer??

[BankFodder]

Well I'm afraid that by talking to an organisation recommended by a DCA, is probably not the best idea.

If you feel that you can trust us, then I suggest that you start liaising with us only and that you check back with us in respect of any ideas you might have about any kind of communication with any other organisation or person on this.

I think that we may be your best chance of sorting this out although don't expect anything quick. But I think that we can help you take a robust approach and a structured approach.

You are now telling us that in fact you have two daughters and both of them have experienced this problem.

I think this confirms my view that you are being targeted and the most likely thing is that it is being done by somebody you know – or at least somebody you used to know four or five years ago.

 

[BankFodder]

I understand that you may not have much time to spare – but somebody will need to engage with this and to take on the work of getting this all prepared. There is likely to be quite a lot of work. Are your daughters competent with computers and do they have the necessary computer/scanner/printer to help? Would they be prepared to register with this forum under separate user identities and get involved in this discussion?

I'm afraid that contacting action fraud is useless – unless you have a body of evidence and that is what we will help you put together.

So far you have identified one train company – Arriva North. Please can you tell us about that. Post up the story of the problem with Arriva North in a separate post

 

[BankFodder]

You've already had a suggestion from my site team colleague @dx100uk but I think that any complaint to BTP or anyone else will be most effective if you have put together a comprehensive file that tells the story in a structured and methodical way.

This is why we need to start off with a list of all the rail companies that have been involved and then we need to start trying to piece together a story for each of them. You may not have all the correspondence – but we can start finding out what they have on you by sending them subject access requests. These take 30 days to produce disclosures and so we need to get a move on.

Also, we obviously would like to know the contents of your daughters file which may give us additional information.

By the way, a subject access request is a disclosure of personal data so I'm afraid that each one of you is going to have to send your separate request to each one of the companies involved in order to obtain your own personal disclosures. As already indicated, the whole thing is going to take some time but I think this is the way to move you forward.

[BankFodder]

One of the things that we will need to discover through a statutory subject access request is how they verified the identity of this mystery person.

Presumably that person couldn't actually give any ID so does that mean that the inspectors simply took her word for it?

It will be useful to know the answers to these questions because all of these companies have duties to process your personal data accurately. If they failed to do that then they could be liable to you for the distress caused as well as any other damage.
I'm just trying to envisage a scenario where a ticket inspector stops a young woman who then says that she's been travelling without a ticket. The inspector asks her her name and address and she gives the false name and address. The inspector then asks her to verify this by identification. The woman then says that she is not carrying anything with her.
What happens at that point? How does it work? Does the inspector then have to take your word for it and warn her that she will be contacted with a possible sanction?

If that's as far as it goes, then it seems a bit ridiculous to me that you stop somebody for travelling without a ticket – evident dishonesty. Then they give the controller their name and address which can't be verified and so the controller has to accept that and on that basis a procedure is started against the named person on the basis that the contact details which were given at the time must be true – even though that person has already demonstrated their dishonesty by travelling without a ticket.

Or, are we going to find – if there is a statutory disclosure, that this person is travelling around with some documentation which identifies her as you, your husband or one of your two daughters? Which of course would be very much more serious.

This is why we want a list of the rail companies – as much information as possible so that we can start forcing them to disclose information about how this all occurred.

I would also be interested in sending an SAR to action fraud to see what they have done with your allegation which you made some time ago and about which you never heard anything further.

[BankFodder]

Well if that's all it is then it's ridiculous. You ask somebody their name – they give you a false name but which is the name of somebody else. The authority then checks the electoral role to see if somebody of that name is included on the register – and of course, yes they are.

This does nothing to connect the person who's been stopped with the name which they have given and with the individual who is actually that named person and whose identity is being stolen.

[BankFodder]

I think the first thing to say about the document which has been posted up by my site team colleague @honeybee13 is that this is basically a policy document which which contains guidance as how particular situations are dealt with. It's not legally binding and it doesn't give any legal protection against mis-identifying somebody and then wrecking their lives by prosecutions et cetera.

What it does to from a customer-facing perspective is inform people how they will be treated and the procedures which are likely to be applied. What it does do in terms of guidance for staff, is that it protects staff from disciplinary actions if they follow those guidelines and get it wrong. What it doesn't do is protect the organisation from the legal process if the organisation gets it wrong.

Once again, I'm asking you to provide us with a full list of the railway companies that have contacted you and also any other authorities that you have had to deal with.

I'm a bit worried that this thread is starting to turn into a bit of a talking shop now and we aren't actually moving ahead.

@Slimspider needs now to start researching the information that we've asked for and put it up on this thread.

I can't see any problem at all with the least listing the railway companies and I would have thought that this could be done right now – even if not all of them can be remembered at the moment and some have to be added later on.

This thread has been running for almost 3 full days now and we haven't got any of the information that might be needed to start moving forward.

A subject access request takes 30 days to produce the disclosure. The quicker we get these SARs sent off and the quicker we can start to get some solid information and then decide on the action we can take.

 

[BankFodder]

56 minutes ago, Ethel Street said:

 

I agree with comments about revenue inspectors not checking ID but it's hard to see what the alternative is. It would be impractical to arrest everyone then talke them to a police station to check their fingerpronts and DNA. But you'd think the train companies would be well aware of the potential for identity fraud.

 

 

I agree about the difficulties of checking IDs et cetera but frankly that's not the problem here. We have not been asked to give assistance to the transport companies. We've been asked to give assistance to a family which is the victim of identity theft, identity fraud – and even if the transport rules are being followed, inadequate procedures. If the transport rules haven't been followed then we're talking about very serious lapses of procedure – and we will only start to find this out if we can send out SARs.

I don't think it's any kind of defence to say to somebody that we prosecuted you because we followed our guidelines and the problem of fraud on the railways is so great that you are just one of the necessary victims – tough luck, sorry.

The data protection rules are quite clear and there is no reasonableness test. The liabilities are strict

[BankFodder]

The CAG site team are very concerned about the situation and we have had a private discussion.

 

My site team colleague @dx100uk posted this suggestion in the post below

 

I suggest very strongly that you contact them immediately and give them full details of what's happened.
You should give them the whole story but specifically you should make sure that you tell them:

 

 have someone that for +5yrs has been using like or the direct same names of me and my family when stopped multiple times by many TOC's (some xxx times),

 

i have now found out i have been convicted, fined, and have had bailiffs at my door, regarding this persons actions - i am desperate for your help.

 

 

Please let us know that you have done this and what the reaction has been. Please make sure they get a reference number – it will probably be a crime reference number and also if possible the name or telephone number et cetera of any person or department that you speak with. It may be important to go to get back in contact with them again and using the same reference number or contact details will help the various conversations be connected with each other on the BTP file.

.

However, although the British Transport Police will be very interested in trying to track down the person who is causing all this problem, they will not be able to deal with all the problems which have been caused such as your wrecked credit file and your personal data records with various organisations.

 

We can help you with that. Of course if the British Transport Police managed to find the person, then information that they gather will be of additional help in sorting out your problem.

 

So it seems to me that there are two objectives.

• Number one is to stop it happening again by finding the culprit and arresting them.

• Number two is to undo all the damage that has been caused - and hopefully to get you compensation because it seems to me that the train companies have not acted correctly in trusting the word of a person who has been travelling without a ticket and who is clearly dishonest.

However, we are still waiting for your input on this

 

[BankFodder]

4 minutes ago, Slimspider said:

Here are some of the train companies :-

 

Quote

 

East Midlands trains

Access to personal information

You are entitled to see the personal information we hold about you and may obtain these details by emailing us at: dsar@eastmidlandsrailway.co.uk. We are entitled by law to charge an administrative fee to meet our costs in providing you with such details and we may require proof of your identity before we supply the information to you.

 

 

 

 

Quote

 

transpennine express 

 You have the right to request that we:

• provide you with a copy of the information we hold about you;
• We have appointed a Data Protection Officer. They are responsible for our approach to data protection and protecting your privacy. You can contact them at DPO@firstgroup.com.

 

•  

 

Quote

virgin trains 

You have the right to request that we:

• provide you with a copy of the information we hold about you;

privacy.matters@theredstar.team

 

 

 

Quote

 

Northern by arriva

No longer in existence - we will have to find out who is now holding the data

 

Quote

 

LNER

data.safe@lner.co.uk

 

 

 

Quote

 

metrolink

data.protection@tfgm.com

 

 

 

I have posted up above the email addresses which you should used to send statutory requests for data disclosure. Let me say that these websites don't really make much of a feature of data protection and I have a feeling that it may be difficult to get your disclosures – but you should try.

Please read the explanations and instructions that we have in our library at this link >>>  subject access request

 

Use the template that you will find about the third post done in that link.

And I think that you should do this immediately with this initial SAR.

So broadly speaking your subject access request should include the following sentence which you should incorporate into the template:

my name is XXX and my address is XXX. (This should be the address to which they have been sending all of their trouble)
as evidence of my identity, I am sending a copy of a utility bill/bank statement/other ID with your name and the relevant address on it.

Then you use the words in the template to make your statutory request.

Please let us know if there is anything that you don't understand and if you will be able to do this.

You should make sure that you keep copies of all of these emails – and also give yourself a diary note of the date that you sent off the disclosure and a note of when 30 days would have expired – after you have given them about two days for them to receive the email.

If you get any replies from them wanting further information et cetera then please let us know.

I notice that East Midlands railway say that they are entitled to charge a fee. This is wrong. This was before 2018 and it is shameful that they haven't updated their website to give proper information.

 

If any of your daughters have had problems from these same railway companies then they should also send exactly the same letters, with their own evidence of identity.

In order to send utility bills et cetera, you may need to scan them – if you don't have them electronically already. This means that you will have access to a scanner.

I know this all sounds a lot of work at the moment – but it seems to me that you have had for years of serious trouble and distress and you now need to take control. I'm afraid that this won't happen without some initial effort but once you get it going, it will start to pay dividends.

Don't expect the railway companies to comply immediately and without problems. Some of them will – but some of them will need threatening and we will help you threaten them.

Some of them may one additional ID checks – let us know about anything you hear from them – but very importantly, keep an eye open on the deadline – the 30 day deadline which will be sometime in January.

I'm afraid that building up a proper file of evidence is the only way to deal with this properly and to get people to pay attention to you.

Have you got the action fraud reference number?

[BankFodder]

Quote

 

Action Fraud

If you wish to see the records of any correspondence you have sent to the IOPC, or if you have a query or complaint about this privacy policy or about the site, you can contact us by emailing requestinfo@policeconduct.gov.uk.

 

 

Quote

 

Dear Sir/Mdm

Data subject access request – reference number XXX

my name is XXX and my address is XXX (use the address which was given as part of your original action fraud complaint)

I am accompanying this request with a utility bill in my name and address/bank statement in my name and address/some other appropriate ID – as evidence of identity.

I would be grateful if you would let me have all information which you are holding in reference to the complaint I made to Action Fraud under the complete reference number XXX (above).

I need to know what action may have been taken in respect of this complaint and what the position is at the moment.

Thank you

Yours faithfully

Slimspider

 

 

 

Also, I understand that you may have complained to one rail company who undertook to refer the matter to the British Transport Police.

Which rail company was that please?

[BankFodder]

Finally, as you have been told that British Transport Police have been informed about the problem, I think you should find out what they are holding and what they have done.

Therefore send them an SAR as well – pretty well the same as before, with evidence of ID –

Quote

Subject Access – Accessing Data Held About Yourself

Information held on the Police National Computer

To find out what information (if any) is held on PNC about you, (i.e. a copy of your prosecution/conviction history) complete Form ACRO SAR1. These checks are carried out by the Association of Chief Police Officers Criminal Records Office (ACRO). When you complete this form you need to send it directly to ACRO. ACRO will reply directly to you at the postal address you provide on the form.

All submissions and enquiries relating to this process should be directed to ACRO.

ACRO
PO Box 481
Fareham
PO14 9FS

0845 6013999 (8.30am-4.30pm, Monday to Friday)

acro.policecertificates@acro.pnn.police.uk

use the email address rather than sending the letter. This will make things much easier – but once again, keep everything well-organised. Every SAR to each company or organisation should be kept separately with a diary note relating to it and any information received should be stored with that company's entry so that it is all highly organised.

[BankFodder]

That's an interesting suggestion. Maybe @Slimspider could try 192 and see whether her family's details might be available using that system.

It would certainly provide an alternative explanation – although I don't think it will have much relevance to trying to sort out the immediate problem although of course if the mystery woman is not known to the family, it might make it more difficult to discover her identity and put an end to it happening again in future

[BankFodder]

What's the latest on this, please?