Your parking ticket may be unlawful

[Jimbo44]

Also they can of course make a citizens arrest as can Community Support Officers.

 

....as was confirmed by the police in our local press when PCSO's first hit the streets here.

 

As an aside for a moment, I believe a ceretain form of words has to be used when making a citizens arrest. Anyone any idea what this is?

[rogerebaker]

A citizens arrest can only be made when the matter is more serious, certainly dosnt include parking matters or failing to stop for a traffic warden or equivalent

[JonCris]

There is no particular form of words for a citizens arrest other than gotcha!

 

You can only make a citizens arrest AFTER the crime is commited except in the case of protecting the vunerable such as the elderly/infirm or children. Then you can act just BEFORE the commission of the crime, but you better have good grounds for your suspicions

[JonCris]

ALL offences are now arrestable parking or otherwise.

 

If its council operated parking restrictions then you can't commit an offence as it has been decriminalised. If its a police operated traffic warden then you can

[me_n_my_kids]

ALL offences are now arrestable parking or otherwise.

 

If its council operated parking restrictions then you can't commit an offence as it has been decriminalised. If its a police operated traffic warden then you can

 

 

Meaning that tickets payable to police are allowed to say 'offence'?

[Rob S]

Powers of arrest can be found here. Note the limitation for persons other than constables:-

 

Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005

[rogerebaker]

There is no particular form of words for a citizens arrest other than gotcha!

 

You can only make a citizens arrest AFTER the crime is commited except in the case of protecting the vunerable such as the elderly/infirm or children. Then you can act just BEFORE the commission of the crime, but you better have good grounds for your suspicions

 

JonCris.

 

Im not sure there are any exceptions to the citizens power of arrest as regards elderly / infirm. An Indictable offence must have been committed (no exceptions). Only a constable can arrest prior to an offence ( About to be committed).

 

Although all offences are now arrestable for constables provided certain conditions apply this is not the case for a citizens arrest. Only indictable offence. ( Which includes most things like theft, damage, assault) but certainly doesnt include any sort of parking offences.

 

Its a bit of a mine field really

[JonCris]

roger I haven't said anything different. I only make the point that a citizen CAN make an arrest if he has reasonable ground to think a vunerable person is at imminent risk. You don't have to wait until the old lady is mugged before acting if you have reasonably grounds to suspect it's about to happen.

 

As I keep saying if the parking is council controlled it isn't an offence & if the council claim it is then any ticket issued claiming to be a fine or a penalty is unenforcable.

 

If it's police controlled then it is an offence for which you can be fined

[Peterbard]

HI

I know i should read the whole of this thread and i will when i get the time but in the meanwhile will somone take pitty and answer a stupid question.

I got a ticket for parking in a councill car park (MY Dissabled badge had run out) it says i have commited an offence under ther road trafic regulations 1984 it has no date of issue and says i must pay £20 or £50 if recieved after 7 days from the date of offence it does however give a dat e of when the ticket was completed half way down the form.

Help

Peter

[Peterbard]

HI Again

I have had a look throught thread and hve not been able to find what i am loking for (my fault I am sure)there seems to be very little information on tickets issued under the 1984 act.I was parked in a council parking spot and am dissabled my badge had run out last month and i am waiting for the new one.

Is ther no prescribed form that tickets issued under this act have to take .Any information would be very appretiated.

 

Cheers Peter

[rogerebaker]

HI Again

I have had a look throught thread and hve not been able to find what i am loking for (my fault I am sure)there seems to be very little information on tickets issued under the 1984 act.I was parked in a council parking spot and am dissabled my badge had run out last month and i am waiting for the new one.

Is ther no prescribed form that tickets issued under this act have to take .Any information would be very appretiated.

 

Cheers Peter

 

Peter

 

The tickets issued under the 1984 Act are different in that it is not decriminilised.

 

The final ajudicator is a magistrates court which if you do not pay is where it will end up and not the parking appeals service.

 

You can appeal firstly to the council who will look at your appeal and then if rejected have the choice to either summons you or forget it.

 

If you do decide to challange it you could be liable to costs at a magistrates court.

 

Neil Herron who runs Metric martyers website has done just that on a number of occasions with interesting results. If you want good advice on this it would be worth contacting him. put Metric martyers in to Google and it will come up.

[Adam69]

Hi folks

Quick question: went to a footy match last night, my friend was parked on double yellows in a quiet side street (yeah, he knew the risk but has done it loads before without problems) and returned to see that the whole row of cars had been ticketed, shortly after kick off by a shocking coincidence. His car is dark blue, but the ticket says black- as the ticket is technically incorrect can he claim it's invalid and ask for it to be cancelled? I'm thinking if they claim it was too dark to see that they (the council) should provide better street lighting! I will also check it over for the other technicalities mentioned in the thread, ie date of issue/offence.etc.

Thanks in advance

Adam

[angelsdawn]

Hi, my name is Nickie and I have a Parking Ticket!!

 

Back in October, I stopped in a Council car park to pop into the shops. I paid for a Pay and Display ticket (which I still have). Anyway, came back to the car park and got in my car and drove away. When I got home, I noticed that the PCN had been put under my windscreen (the car park was really dark, so I didn't see it in the car park). Anyway, I wrote a letter and said I had displayed the ticket and sent them a copy of it. They wrote back and basically said tough, and that I wasn't displaying it correctly - it was a ticket without a sticky bit on the back, so I put it on the dashboard above my steering wheel.

 

Anway, I now have the notice to the owner, and need to reply to it... I'm not paying the ticket (cos I already paid to park in the car park!)

 

Anyone able to help me with how to get out of this ticket.... If I had noticed the PCN at the time I would have taken pics, but I didn't notice it till I got home.

 

Also, given all the confusion over wording on PCNs, is there anything wrong with this:

 

PCN

Serial Number: xxx

Date of notice: 08/10/06

Vehicle Reg: xxx

Make: xxxx

was seen in: St Georges Car Park, NO TICKET DISPLAYED

Logged at: 13:29

Issued at: 13:30 08/10/06

by Parking attendant 037 who had reasonable cause to believe that the following parking contravention had occurred

Offence: 83

Parked in a Pay and Display car park without clearly displaying a valid ticket

 

A penalty charge of £80 is now payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the date of this notice. If its paid before the end of the period of 14 days beginning with the date of this notice then amount is reduced to £40. If payment of this notice is made you lose the opportunity of further appeal.

 

--------

 

Anyways, I am going to appeal somehow - cos they can't have a photo or anything of my car without the P&D ticket on the dashboard, because it was there!!

 

But help would be appreciated.

 

Nickie

[rogerebaker]

Angelsdawn

 

There is a case on the NPAS website which is similar to yours. The ticket was so flimsey and had no method of fixing it to the windscreen it slipped of the dashboard and a FPN was issued.

 

The appeal was won by the motorist as the ajudicator stated that the ticket should be easily attached the vehicle and not flimsy or words to that effect.

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that the councils almost always reject the first informal appeal keep trying hopefully they will see common sense.

 

I will try and find it and post a link

[rogerebaker]

Here is the link

 

http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/cases/MC00227%20Hepworth%20Allowed%20flimsy%20P%20&%20D%20ticket%20-%20identity%20removed.doc[url=http://www.parking-appeals.gov.uk/about/cases/MC00227%20Hepworth%20Allowed%20flimsy%20P%20&%20D%20ticket%20-%20identity%20removed.doc][/url]

[JonCris]

In a council car park I've actually witnessed a council parking attendant try rocking a car to dislodge a loose parking ticket & hope to cause it to fall off the dash.

 

I was sitting in my car opposite & when I got out to confront him it made him jump I can tell you

[angelsdawn]

Hey, thanks for the info. I have written my representation in response to the Notice to Owner and will let you know how it goes!!

 

Nickie

[alexmc]

I received a parking ticket today from wandsworth council. It contains the wording "date of notice:" on both the main body and the tear off part, but there is no reference to "date of issue".

Are these one and the same thing, or is "date of issue" a requirement on a ticket?

 

Alex.

[patdavies]

Are these one and the same thing, or is "date of issue" a requirement on a ticket?

 

Alex.

 

No they are not and yes it is

[alexmc]

Thanks Pat

Is there somewhere that will point out to me how "date of issue" should be used on the ticket, and what the consequences of it not being there?

I will try and post a picture of the ticket when I figure out how to do it! hopefully at a minimum to perhaps help out other victims of Wandsworth's hugely zealous parking "operatives".

 

Alex.

[Guest xipetotec46]

should I just pay bloody fine?

 

NO!!! if you what you say is true fight it.

Does the PCN show the tax disc number and all other relevant details as he may not have had time to note them down, before you drove off

Barry

[seylectric]

This is where I believe the system is all wrong, they KNOW that a lot of the tickets that are issued are illegal and they KNOW that most people are likely to pay up rather than the hassle of fighting and possibly the risk of having to pay the full instead of the discounted rate.

 

They use the "50% discount if paid within 14 days" rule to coerce people into paying rather than appeal, inevitably lose, and have to pay the full rate and it's wrong. Let's be honest, on top of the millions that pay up without a fight rather than risking and paying double, there are probably millions more that have lost the appeal, know nothing about NPAS and have paid up in full.

 

That's not even including the millions of tickets that have been issued that are illegaly worded and so invalid, but councils have taken the money for and refuse to refund, and STILL pursue those (like myself) who have not and will not pay.

 

Apart from this scandalous con which is getting people to pay up, the most disgraceful aspect of it all is that tickets are often being issued illegally in the first palce, such as where there is a break in double yellow lines. Wardens MUST KNOW the law regarding double yellow lines and the legalities surrounding the validity of them, if they don't they're incompetent and should be sacked, if they do they are knowingly booking you illegally and should be hauled up before the courts to explain why they are deliberatly ignoring the law regarding d/y lines and defrauding you of your money on behalf of the council/police.

 

In probably millions of cases we are being fined without a trial for something (in council controlled areas) which isn't even an offence - how can that be even legal? - but what is disgusting is that we are being fined for misdemeanours that in many cases, because for example there was an obvious break in a line, we should not be getting in the first place!

 

The whole thing is totally out of proportion too. You would get fined less for putting a brick through someone's window (it's true, the yob who threw a brick through my window got fined £25).

 

£50 for parking on a double yellow line in an otherwise unused lay-by (former bus stop), no need for any parking restrictions - but there is a council "pay" car park 50 - yards away). £50 for overstaying a parking meter by 5 minutes. Why? Where's the victim? What about al the profit that is made from people who have paid for an hour but left after 40 minutes? the next guy comes along and pays for an hour, so for the next 20 minutes they have been paid double! That's Ok then is it?

 

Sorry, rant over but the whole money-making [problem], and let's face it that's all it is, makes my blood boil.

 

FIGHT!

[denzil69]

if only more people took the fight attitude!

 

and where's the law, when a penalty charge cannot by law make a profit??

it appears this side of only applies to a contract, dont the public have a contract with their local and county councils?

[seylectric]

Where's the law??? This is what makes me so bloody angry, the system is about as lawless as you can get.

 

As well as the issues mentioned above, you can go off at tangents all over the place with this subject.

 

How can the law justify towing away a car which might be worth £50,000 for non-payment of a parking fine, especially when it's not even a criminal offence and there has been no court hearing to determine your guilt?

 

How can the law justify double yellow lines being painted in an otherwise disused lay-by or a cul-de-sac with no houses in it?

 

In particular relation to council controoled parking, how can you be fined without a trial for, er, well doing no harm to anybody or anything really by overstaying a parking meter by 5 minutes? So you were in the queue in the bank for 20 minutes. Where's the crime? Where's the victim? So what is the penalty charge actually for then? Since it is not an offence, It can't be a punishment because you haven't committed a crime - so it's not actually a fine. So how is it enforceable then?

[angelsdawn]

My message out there to anyone who gets a ticket is to fight it.... After posting on here over New Years weekend, I wrote a letter to Merton Council appealing my ticket (which I got for not displaying a pay and display ticket properly.... which given it didn't have anything with it to stck it to the windscreen, is it surprising it wasn't displayed properly?)

 

Anyway, I got a letter back from the Council today, which stated that after reviewing my letter they have decided not to pursue my case and my ticket has been cancelled!!!

 

Which is one up to me, and one down to Merton Council..... and a poke in the eye for all the friends and family who told me to just pay up...... and now have to eat humble pie and realise that my way, to contest things and put up a fight, is the right way..

 

 

And now, people from my office and my family are coming out of the woodwork with parking tickets that they want to see if they can contest!!

 

 

So thanks to everyone on here... all the information and advice helped me out... and saved me from paying an extortionate £80 for 20 minutes in a car park!

 

Nickie:)