Civil Enforcement Final Reminder out of the blue

[HedgehogTheSecond]

I just received a Final Reminder for £170 from Civil Enforcement, starting

"We previously sent you a Letter Before Action..."

 

I never received this Letter Before Action, so this is the first I know of the matter.

There is no clue in the Final Reminder as to the nature or location of the alleged offence; all I have is a PCN.

 

I went to their website www.ce-service.co.uk, and it told me that the link to lodge an appeal is appeals.ce-service.co.uk.

I entered my details, but all I got was "You have entered invalid details. Please try again." (I took a screenshot of this.)

And their helpline is closed due to Covid-19.

So now I am in limbo -- I'm certainly not going to pay a fine when I don't even know what it's for, but I have no way of finding out!

I think Kafka wrote a story about this.

 

What can I do?

[FTMDave]

Firstly it's not a fine, it's an invoice from a private company.

 

Have you moved recently?  Could that be why you didn't receive previous letters?

Edited July 24, 2020 by FTMDave
Typo

[HedgehogTheSecond]

Nine months ago.

And they know my current address, because they sent the Final Reminder there.

I don't think that can be it.

 

But now that I think about it, they have supposedly sent me _two_ letters before this one, haven't they?

A simple parking charge and then the Letter Before Action?

Or do they not bother with the first of these if a parking ticket was issued?

(I never saw such a ticket if it was issued.)

 

If it comes down to a simple matter of whether they believe me when I say I didn't receive anything,

I'm thinking it's not going to end well for me.

[FTMDave]

20 minutes ago, HedgehogTheSecond said:

I'm thinking it's not going to end well for me.

 

On the contrary, I reckon you've dodged a bullet.  They could have issued a court claim against you at your old address and they would have won as you wouldn't have known and wouldn't have been able to defend it.

 

I think you should send a SAR to them tomorrow.  It's free and that way you could find out what you're supposed to have done wrong (in CEL's daft opinion).

 

When you send the SAR, add a paragraph saying you've moved ... belt & braces.

 

However, hang fire till tomorrow, see what others think first.

[brassnecked]

Concur with FTMDave, it could be that they have a new tactic whereby they send the reminder about a LBA, that they never sent, CEL are noted charlatans.

[dx100uk]

when was the offence?

it is very dangerous to assume just because they have written to your current address , they legally know it.

 

if you have moved since the offence and you will not get notice from where you lived about court papers very quickly, then i seriously advise you to write to them giving your new address, as they will and can quite legally file the court papers to your old address and the 1st you'll know is a CCJ appearing on your credit file, CEL will not miss the chance 100% for sure of a backdoor CCJ.

 

dx

 

[HedgehogTheSecond]

I have no idea when or where this is supposed to have happened!

All I have is the Final Reminder, and the only information on that is the PCN, which is no good for anything because it has (presumably) expired.

 

But I'm not sure I understand you

-- how can they _know_ my new address but not _legally_know it?

 

Also, I can't believe the alleged offence took place more than nine months ago.

Surely I would have heard something by now.

[dx100uk]

anyone with a CCL can look at your credit file and find your correct address - that does not mean they are thus legally informed by you of a change of address.

 

bit like moving and not updating ALL your creditors on your credit file with your new address if you ran away from old debts...

or not updating car V5C or your Driving licence .

 

if the offence happened prior to your move and/or you updating V5C to DVLA , they would have requested and gotten your old address from the DVLA under the rules that exist, that serves as the legal address until they are told otherwise by you.

 

you not knowing when it happened would not be a default CCJ set aside reason.

 

write to CEL.

 

cant harm you.

[FTMDave]

dx is spot on.  Write a 2-line letter to CEL tomorrow, quoting the PCN number, saying you've moved from A to B.  Send it 1st class and get a free Certificate of Posting.

 

If you look through the titles of other threads, you'll see "Backdoor CCJ" due to moving is pretty frequent.

 

Plus when you get time, also send them a SAR so you can find out what all this is about.

Edited July 24, 2020 by FTMDave
Typo

[ericsbrother]

As they know your current address they cant abuse the court process and use yoru old addy to start a claim so that is one thing you have going for you.

 

If they tried that wheeze they would not only get the claim overturned by set aside but also have to pay all costs and probably lose the rematch for abuse of process, even if they had a case to answer ( they wont, CEL never even try to do thing properly)

 

So, as advised, send them a SAR and use their reference numbers and previous address to limit their ability to muck you about demanding proof of identity

[HedgehogTheSecond]

UPDATE -- GOOD NEWS
I just got a reply to my SAR, with photos and everything.

It refers to a parking offence from 30th May 2019 (!), involving my _previous_ car, and was sent to my _last but one_ address.

 

The good news is, the photos show that it was not my car!

It's the same make and model, but appears to be grey or silver instead of white.

 

The front plate has an F that an AI could mistake for a P, because of a retaining bolthead.

But the rear plate clearly shows an F where my reg number has a P.
So who should I reply to, and how?

[dx100uk]

CEL

[FTMDave]

Yes, to CEL, using snail mail again, again getting a free Certificate of Posting.  How about something like:

 

"Dear Ashley,

 

Re: PCN no. XXXXX

 

cheers for your LBA.

 

If you'd bothered to look at the photos of the vehicle in question you'd have seen the registration number is XXXXX.  I have never owned or driven such a vehicle.

 

The £9.99 ANPR cameras you buy second hand on eBay have confused this registration number with my vehicle XXXXX and as you're too bone idle to do any checking my time has been wasted sorting out your incompetence.

 

If you want to take me to court regarding a vehicle you know full well isn't even mine then fine, go for it, I'll enjoy thrashing you and claiming unreasonable behaviour costs under CPR27.14(2)(g)".

 

However, hang on for 24 hours to see what others think, there are Caggers who have years & years of experience with CEL.

[brassnecked]

I wouldn't give my reg number in case he does a photoshop jobby.

[lookinforinfo]

I wouldn't be too worried about that  Brassnecked they can't alter the colour . 

However  Hedgehog 11 they have definitely breached GDPR by applying for your data from the DVLA. So  once you have used Dave's letter to point out the difference between the pictures they have of the front and rear reg  numbers they clearly will not take you to Court. So remove the sentence about taking you to Court  as they wil want to avoid Court lke the plague as you will be  demanding  £500 [about the going rate] for breaching GDPR.

It's always a good feeling when the prey can reverse the situation and become the attacker.

[HedgehogTheSecond]

brassnecked, you are not thinking this through. They already know my number, don't they? It is the one with a P in place of an F. They traced my address on the basis of that number.

[brassnecked]

Ah yes was off on a tangent on something else.  The GDPR angle is the one to give them both barrels with as suggested.,

[ericsbrother]

Report them  to the ICO and also send a complaint to the DVLA about this.  copy DVLA complaint to your MP as the Swansea layabouts like to pretend they do everythng properly and no-one has ever complained about this before and that is the lie they peddle to parliament on the frequesnt occasiosn they are pulled up on the same thing

 

I wouldpersonally risk staying quiet and letting them take me to court just so I could bury them in the hole they have just dug for themselves but you might want a quieter life so a short letter saying that isnt my vehicle you muppets buy some new glasses or the sentimetn expressed in posts above

Edited August 14, 2020 by ericsbrother