The Trade Centre Group - Rejecting a vehicle due to water leak & brakes.

[Advm96s]

On the 21st November 2019 I purchased a Mercedes A180 from the trade centre uk a second hand car dealership, after a month of driving the car I noticed water ingress in under the boot where the spare tyre goes, there was a substantial amount of water so i rang up the dealership on the 30th day of me owning the vehicle, telling them I want to reject the vehicle and they said they will need to inspect before any decisions were made on there behalf. The date was 20th December 2019

 

After reporting the issue and raising a complaint the trade centre wanted to inspect the vehicle to find the source of the leak. The earliest appointment i got was the 15th January 2020, in the meantime I wanted to get a peace of mind and took the vehicle to a Mercedes dealership and have it inspected by a Mercedes technician. The date for the inspection with Mercedes was the 9th January 2020. When i picked up the car the following day the issues were very concerning as the water ingress was caused from a issue with the vents on top of the boot and the rear brake pads were worn at 70% and the discs were worn 100% to the limit (I have written and video evidence of the issues) Mercedes themselves deemed the car unsafe to drive aswell as been unsatisfactory.

 

On the 15th of January i took the car in to the trade centre, before the technician took the car to inspect it, I gave the customer relations team member the written report that Mercedes made and he photocopied and he gave it to the technician. After a few hours i received a phone call saying the car was absolutely fine and was ready for me to pick it up, so i went up to trade centre and spoke with another member of staff to be refused to speak further with a manager, going through the report that there technician had done was completely different from the Mercedes report and was given a week to accept repairs on the vehicle.

 

meanwhile i was in contact with my finace company and they sent a private inspector to come out called ACE on the 28th January 2020 to see if the car was in the condition point of sale. As he viewed the car and done his report it came back that the car was sold to me with all the ongoing issues and completely deemed the car unsafe and unsatisfactory, so the report came back pretty much exactly the same as the Mercedes report.

 

After 2 days I had a phone call from the trade centre saying they will only accept repairs on the vehicle and I completely declined that and was pushing for the car to be rejected. I stopped driving the car after the Mercedes report only doing 1000 miles in the month I had it and as a good customer I am still paying £265 a month on the vehicle without obviously using it. The trade centre want to do another inspection on the vehicle on the 17th February 2020 to see if circumstances have changed so the management can come to their final decision to see what happens going foward. With the trouble i have had the vehicle I know that they are not going to accept the rejection and repairs will happen. 

 

I feel as I do have a leg to stand on here as the car is covered with mould from top to bottom and they car is absolutely saturated with water from the boot to the pedals in the Mercedes.

 

I understand my consumer rights and have obviously verbally rejected the vehicle on recorded calls, I just want to know peoples opinions and any way that could help me in this situation.

 

Thanks.

[BankFodder]

https://www.tradecentreuk.com/index.php

 

Is this the company?

[Advm96s]

Indeed it is.

[BankFodder]

What is the value of the car and what other ancillary losses might you have incurred

[Advm96s]

The cars street value is around £8,000

Full finance been £15,890 

And the Mercedes inspection was £110

[dx100uk]

and don't forget to get the finance money you've paid back to date and get the agreement cancelled.

 

 

[stu007]

The Trade Centre Group PLC
Euro Centre
Neath Abbey Business Park
Neath Abbey
SA10 7DR

 

Company Number: 04921555

 

Directors: Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey, Nathan Mark Bailey, Timothy James Carr, Andrew Paul Coulthurst, Stephen Richards, Mark David Sainsbury, Andrew Charles Wildy

 

Previous Names: The Trade Centre Group Limited, The Trade Centre Wales Ltd, TCW (2003) Limited

 

Companies House link: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04921555

Endole link: https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/04921555-the-trade-centre-group-plc

Bizdb link: https://www.bizdb.co.uk/company/the-trade-centre-wales-ltd-04921555/

 

FCA Registration Number: 689365
https://register.fca.org.uk/ShPo_FirmDetailsPage?id=001b000000nynPWAAY

 

Note: Directors: Mark Thomas Raymond Bailey, Timothy James Carr, Stephen Richards, Andrew Charles Wildy, Andrew Paul Coulthurst are linked in to:

 

Bailey Family Investments Plc
Company Number: 04313694
Companies House link: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/04313694
Endole Link: https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/04313694-bailey-family-investments-plc

 

Car Finance Limited
Company Number: 05128743
Company House Link: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/05128743

Endole Link: https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/05128743-car-finance-limited

 

Can Can Car Finance Limited
Company Number: 08175834
Company House Link: https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/08175834

Endole Link: https://suite.endole.co.uk/insight/company/08175834-can-can-car-finance-limited

 

(Note: the address for all those linked is Euro Centre)

[BankFodder]

Well you seem to have done everything broadly right – except that although you apparently asserted your short-term right to reject under the consumer rights and just on the 30 day deadline, you don't say that you confirmed this in writing or that you have any other evidence that you did so. Maybe you can clarify this. If you didn't then of course it is your word against theirs and that is unhelpful.

You say somewhere in your story that there are call recordings. These recordings which you made of telephone calls or are you relying on their recordings? Please see our customer services guide.

You also still within six months of having purchased the vehicle and that means that you are entitled to assert the ordinary right to reject which effectively means that you can insist on a single attempt to repair the vehicle and if the repair fails then you are entitled to a refund.

This kind of stuff is all very well and when the consumer rights and was first introduced with this 30 day right and in the six months right, people were bouncing around with a certain amount of satisfaction – but I can tell you that on this forum we certainly haven't come across any seller who either is aware of these rights – or who has been prepared to respect those rights. This is particularly the case with second-hand car dealers.
Frankly in this respect the consumer rights has failed and actually the right to reject provisions should have been accompanied by a financial sanction of, for instance, punitive damages for anyone failing to respect those rights once they are correctly asserted.

It doesn't really matter because you still have the basic law of contract as well as all the other provisions of the consumer rights and and so I would say that you are sufficiently well protected by them. The vehicle must be of satisfactory quality and must remain so for a reasonable period of time. That is in the 2015 act. Your remedy is that where the breach of contract is so fundamental as to deprive you of the benefit of the contract then you are entitled to treat the contract is void.
Furthermore, you are protected by the finance deal. Under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act the finance house bears equal responsibility for the condition of the vehicle and in the event that the trader step up then the finance house can be made equally liable.

What is extremely interesting here is that you've managed to get the finance company already to take an interest and to produce a report which supports a position. Bravo. Finance companies are normally extremely reluctant to get involved and they try to shirk their responsibilities.
Have you approached them about refunding you your money?

There is a final element here which is going to be extremely helpful to you and that is that you have been sold and unroadworthy car and this has been borne out by at least two very credible reports – one from Mercedes and one from your own finance company.

Under section 75 Road Traffic Act 1988 http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/52/section/75 it is an offence to sell a vehicle in unroadworthy condition and this is a serious matter for the dealer. I don't know why, I had a feeling that there was an even more recent act that dealt with exactly the same thing.

I'm surprised that The Trade Centre UK is causing any difficulty over this matter. They have a hugely positive rating on trust pilot – although there are often questions about the integrity of trustpilot reviews, but to have 85% of 12,000 means that there are obviously a lot of genuinely happy customers. However there are 5% of 12,000 reviews where people are genuinely unhappy.

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.tradecentreuk.com

 

You can also see that they are concerned about their reputation because they attempt to challenge negative reviews which are placed on trust pilot

https://www.trustpilot.com/review/www.tradecentreuk.com/activity
 

However if you look elsewhere for reviews about this company – the picture is not quite so rosy . Here are just a couple of links. I'm not so interested in comparing the number of reviews – but rather the percentage of negative reviews.

https://www.cardealerreviews.co.uk/dealership/the-trade-centre-uk-wednesbury-west-midlands-england

https://www.reviews.co.uk/company-reviews/store/thetradecentrewales-co-uk

 

Which particular dealership in the country did you purchase your vehicle from? We sometimes find that with chains of suppliers – of any kind of product – they may sometimes be a particular individual which acts in a way which is not necessarily reflective of the company as a whole. We've even found this with Barclays bank.

I assume you're no longer driving the vehicle – is that correct? I'm afraid that particularly in view of its unroadworthy condition, he should stop immediately.

I would suggest that you prepared to take a legal action – a small claim in the County Court. Your aim should be to roll the contract back so that it never existed and this would include the finance agreement. Don't forget that the finance company are equally responsible.

I suggest that you take control of the situation and start laying down timescales and start asserting deadlines regardless of whether the trade centre or your finance company agree.

I would suggest that you start corresponding with both companies – and make sure that you send copies of your correspondence out to the other so that each company is aware that you are now starting to stir it up and that they have a problem.

I would begin by writing a letter to the dealer enclosing copies of the reports and put them on notice that you now consider that they have breach the contract sufficiently to terminate it and that your relationship with them is now at an end. You should inform them also that they are committing an offence under the Road traffic act and that you will be informing the proper authorities (not that that will make very much difference!) And tell them also that you require them to collect the vehicle and to deal with the finance company and confirm to them that the contract is void and that arrangement should be made for the finance agreement to be voided as well. Tell them that if there is the slightest hesitation about this that you will begin an action in the County Court and that not only will you produce your reports will also you will make it clear in your claim that not only have they breached the contract fundamentally in terms of the condition of the vehicle but also that they have committed an offence. Tell them that as soon as you obtain a judgement which reflects that, that you will be passing that judgement on to the necessary authorities who don't out will take their own action about this.
Send a copy to the finance company.

In a separate envelope, right to the finance company and point out to them that as they have already confirmed with their own report not only has The Trade Centre UK supplied you with a car which is not of satisfactory quality, but also they have sold you a car which is unroadworthy and therefore an offence has been committed. Tell finance company that as a result of that, it is clear that the entire agreement including the finance agreement is void from the outset and that if they will not take immediate steps to cancel the contract and to obtain any refunds et cetera from the dealer that you will be obliged to begin a legal action jointly against the dealer and against then the finance company..

 

Tell them that at the moment you do not have a driver vehicle and also that it is taking up space and so you want the matter sorted out within seven days. Tell them that if there is not a rapid resolution of this then you will be taking your own action to mitigate your losses and you will be sending a letter of claim to both parties and then starting an action within a further 14 days.

I think that probably gives you an idea of your position.

 

[Advm96s]

I did sent the finace company with a written letter of rejection, problem was I only contacted the dealership within the first 30 days, but I dont raise the issues with the finace company. Would this change my situation?

 

Honestly at the moment I am very tempted to cancel the direct debit and allow then to take me to court would this also change anything?

 

And I purchased the car in England

 

Thank you for all the help and knowledge.

[BankFodder]

I'm not sure about the status of sending the letter to the finance company. It should certainly have been sent to the supplier. However, I don't think it's massively relevant given the fact that they have committed an offence of supplying you a vehicle in unroadworthy/dangerous condition and my view is that the contract is void from the outset. This should be your position absolutely.

 

I would not cancel the direct debit. They will leap into debt collection mode and it will damage your credit file and it will take a long time if ever to clear up.

I think you need to challenge this by direct and formal means and follow broadly the suggestion I have outlined above

[Advm96s]

Okay completely understandable. If tomorrow the trade centre do there inspection and the managers decide yet again to not accept the rejection and they offer repairs, obviously it is my choice, but I would rather not accept the repairs and carry on trying to fight them for a rejection. How long could this take before they win or give in? 

[BankFodder]

It is not possible to tell you how long the whole thing would take. I'm afraid that by waiting so long you have already lost a certain amount of credibility and given them comfort.

If they're going to carry out an inspection tomorrow then if I were you I would give them notice right now that you are not prepared to accept a repair under any circumstances and also make them aware that you now have evidence that they have sold you a vehicle in unroadworthy condition and that this is an offence and that you intend to report it.

Make clear to them that you have a Mercedes report and also the report from your own finance company that support your position and that the only solution as far as you are concerned is that they refund you all your money, cancel the finance agreement and that they undertake to be totally responsible for any repercussions in respect of the finance.

Make clear to them that if there are any losses which are not covered by them that you will see them in the County Court.

It's about time you started to take control. If you are prepared to do so then I'm not sure that we can give you any help

[Advm96s]

Okay thank you for all the help! Will keep you updated.

[Advm96s]

The car has now been taken to the trade centre and I am awaiting a decision on of the managers. If they dont agree to the rejection this will be the email I'll send to them. If there is anything else I could add to this pleas could you let me know?  

 

Quote

To whom this may concern,

On the 21st on Novemeber, i purchased a Mercedes A180 on finace with the Trade Centre UK, Wednesbury branch. At the time the vehicle was believed to be the perfect option as i wanted a new car. After 3 weeks of purchasing the car I noticed a puddle of water in the boot, so initially i got in contact on the 20th of December 2019 so I was still in the 30 day period to reject the vehicle. I contacted both The Trade Center and oodle (My finace company) to report the problem. The Trade Centre booked me in for an inspection on the 15th January 2020 and Oodle was not prepared to help, So in the meantime to get a peace of mind, I contacted the Merceades Dealership and got the car inspected on the 9th January 2020 which cost me £110 of my own money and I do have a receipt for the inspection and the problems become even more significant, on top of the water ingress in the Mercedes, the water ingress had caused the seals in both brake lights to corrode, my OSR light to completely stop working which I replaced twice and now the vehicle needs a new light unit, the brake discs were worn to the limit, the pads were worn at 70%, there was a bulge in the tyre, the engine undertray was loose and the water ingress had caused mould on the boot underlay and the vehicle right now is from the boot to pedals completely saturated with water.

The Mercedes dealership said the car was not at a satisfactory quality and it is unsafe to drive. I do have photo, video and written evidence on the problems. I have had Children in the Mercedes on a daily basis unaware of the extent and the seriousness of these problems. On top of this the MOT for the vehicle was done on the 15th August 2019 and the mileage was 55,710 without any advisories.

When I purchased the car from the Trade Centre the mileage was 56,701. On the 15th January 2020 i bought the car is for its inspection and the written report that the Trade centre technician had done was concerning as he completely went against the Mercedes technician with the report coming in fairly different. After sitting down with one of the after car sales team members, they said they were not rejecting the vehicle and saying the car was perfectly fine and it is safe to drive, after a lengthy conversation I was refused to talk further with a manager and had no questions answered. I got home that night and stopped driving the car immediately as i would be deemed responsible if any incidents followed driving a unfit car causing an accident hurting myself or worse me and another person. The mileage now stands at 57,701

My fiance company sent a private inspector called ACE to come and view the vehicle to see if the defects of the vehicle were sold to me point of sale, the report came back pretty much exactly the same of the Mercedes report deeming the vehicle both unsatisfactory and unsafe to drive. On top of this neither company are allowed to go against the ACE report according to my fianace company.

I have recently got back in contact with Mercedes and they are prepared to back up what is wrong with the vehicle if you would like to get in contact yourself please ring 0121 713 6250 and ask for Luke from the service department. The vehicle reg is YT63 JDF.

With the previous MOT also stating there was not even a single advisory but evidence proving that the faults have been on going prior the MOT I have reason to believe it was not recorded correctly and am in contact with DVSA to get a more recent MOT to solidify my theory.

Under section 75 Road Traffic Act 1988 section 75 it is an offence to sell a vehicle in unroadworthy condition and this is a serious matter for you the dealer, also Under the consumer right act 2015, Misrepresentation Act 1967 and according the the act 'goods' the car must be of satisfactory quality, fit for purpose and free from any defect. Now given the issues I have with the vehicle it fails to meet all 3 and by breaching the contract I have been given by the Trade Centre I am not only liable to reject the vehicle but also in my rights to sue the company for misleading goods.

I am protected by the finance deal. Under section 75 of the Consumer Credit Act the finance house bears equal responsibility for the condition of the vehicle and in the event that the trader step up then the finance house can be made equally liable.

I have been up until now a very genuine customer and I am prepared to take legal action against both the Trade Centre UK and Oodle Car Finance for selling me a unroadworthy car. The issues have been ongoing for almost 3 months from when i am writing this and the only option I have had is to repair the vehicle. I contacted The Trade Centre UK within the first 30 days of the agreement and both companies have rejected my rejection or unwind of the vehicle more than once and you are at a breach of your contract sufficiently to terminate it and i hereby now end our relationship.

I require you to collect the vehicle and to deal with the finance company and confirm to them that the contract is void and that arrangement should be made for the finance agreement to be voided as well. If there is the slightest hesitation from The Centre UK to meet these demands i will begin to take action in a county court, not only will i produce my reports i will also you will make it clear in my claim that not only have you breached the contract fundamentally in terms of the condition of the vehicle but also that you have committed an offence. 

A written letter will follow this email enclosing photocopies of all reports.

I look foward to hearing from you with 7 days of this email.

 

[BankFodder]

I'm not too sure why you have to explain your life to these people in such extraordinary detail. They're not psychotherapists – they are second-hand car dealers.

I suggest something briefer and more to the point:

  

Quote

Dear Sir/Mdm

As you know on 21st November I bought a Mercedes registration XXX from you. By the XXX day I realised that it had some serious defects – particularly an ingress of water – and I informed you by telephone that I was asserting my short-term right to reject under the Consumer Rights Act as it was clear that the car was not of satisfactory quality.

The defects were confirmed in reports by Mercedes dated XXX and also by the finance company who sent their own independent assessor and provided report dated XXX date.

Additionally, the reports revealed other defects of which I was not aware and it was clear that not only was the vehicle not of satisfactory quality – but also it was unroadworthy and that by selling it to me you have committed an offence under the Road Traffic Act 1988.

The vehicle is now in your possession for a further inspection but I have already made it clear to you that I have no further confidence in your dealership and accordingly I want the entire contract to be set aside and for you to take whatever steps you need to take between the finance company and yourselves to cancel all agreements – both sale agreement and finance agreement and to return to me all monies which I have paid so far.

I should warn you that I'm fully prepared to take legal action about this. It will be very simple matter and furthermore once I have obtained a judgement against you which will confirm that you have sold me a vehicle in breach of section 75 Road Traffic Act 1988, a copy of this judgement will be sent to the relevant authorities and I will also Instruct High Court Enforcement Officers to enforce the judgement if it becomes necessary.

I'm giving you seven days to refund me all monies paid and also to confirm that you will be dealing directly with the finance company as I have outlined above.

I am sending a copy of this to the finance company

 

 

 

 

[Advm96s]

I've had a email back 

 

Thank you for your below email.

 

I can confirm I have been in direct contact with the Finance Company regarding your vehicle.

 

It has been agreed after both our initial inspection and the ACE engineers inspection have concluded further investigation is required on the reported water ingress that the vehicle comes back to branch in order for us to carry this out.

 

I understand your frustration and apologise for any inconvenience this has caused.

 

We of course want to have the matter resolved as soon as possible and hope once we have further answers on the above we are able to progress.

 

Until the inspection is fully complete I’m afraid we are unable to agree an unwind of the deal.

 

The vehicle has been recovered in to branch today and we therefore hope to get some answers within the next few days.

 

Once we have these I will be assessing the report with our Group Manager in order to move forward.

 

I shall be in touch as soon as possible with the outcome.

 

Kind regards

 

 

in was concluded that the water was coming through the vents on both the Mercedes and my finace companys inspector report. Do I really have to wait a few days for them to come to a decision? Or would you consider this been hisitaint with a decision?

[BankFodder]

I would respond in that case that as they have not resolve the matter satisfactorily and clearly there are two independent reports which show that the vehicle was in unroadworthy condition when it was sold and therefore they have committed an offence – and also that it was sold in unsatisfactory condition you are now giving them 14 days to cancel all deals in cooperation with the finance company or else you will be suing them jointly in the County Court and without any further notice.

I suggest that you send a similar letter to the finance company. In separate envelopes. In other words each party will receive two envelopes, one with the letter addressed to them and one with a copy of the letter addressed to the other party.

Only make the threat if you're prepared to go through with it. Don't bluff. If you are at all uncertain then spend the next few hours checking over the steps to bring an action in the County Court. We will help you but at the end of the day it is your action and if you have to attend court you will have to do it on your own – although we will support you. I can't imagine that they will allow the action to go ahead although they may well push you to a point where you have to issue the papers.

If you win then you will get your money, plus any interest, plus costs. If you lose then of course you may end up having to pay their reasonable cost of travel as they will have to find their way to your local court.

If you consider that you are happy to go ahead then register with the County Court money claim online service. Understand your way around it and start preparing your particulars of claim. It's very straightforward and you won't need to do anything lengthy or particularly formal.

[BankFodder]

Just to add, from what you say about the email to you they are proposing to discover the source of the leak and then repair it. You should make it clear that you will not be prepared to accept this and that you have not returned the vehicle to them for repair. But this in writing to them and make it very very clear.

Also point out to them that they have failed to address the extremely important issue that they have committed an offence by selling you a vehicle in unroadworthy condition as confirmed in the two independent reports. Make sure this is all included in your letter.

[Advm96s]

Highly appreciate this! Just incase it does not go the way I want, how do i get the papers involved, also what solicitors would you recommend?

[BankFodder]

The newspapers will be absolutely not interested at all. It's not a story that will attract them.

Why do you need a solicitor? You can do it yourself for free

[Advm96s]

The trade centre has finally accepted the rejection of the vehicle and I will be signing the contract in friday! They will be giving me all monies I have spent on the finance and reports. 

 

Thank you so much for the guidance 

[BankFodder]

Well I'm very pleased that it seems to be sorted out – but why do you need to sign a contract? You should need to sign anything. They should need to sign something and your finance company should sign something releasing you from all obligations in acknowledgement of the fact that the car was sold to you in an unroadworthy condition and also in unsatisfactory condition

 

If you have arranged all of this with the dealer, then you need to communicate all to the finance company – and you need to make sure that they consider that the contract is void. And that it has been void from the beginning. In other words the contract must be completely rolled back.

I really don't see why you have to sign anything. Have you had a commitment from them in writing?

[Advm96s]

I will bring this up with them, i still need to give them a spare key and v5 for the vehicle so when I go there friday I will be questioning this and I have emailed my finance company already but I will be sure to contact them tomorrow following the rejection 

[BankFodder]

You must have clear written confirmation that the contract is rolled back. You do not want to have the contract cancelled from now. You want it rolled back so that they agree that it is void. The finance company must also agree. You want to see a clear line of communication between the dealer and the finance company that they have both agreed that all agreements are rolled back and avoid and that they will bear any losses. I would also take a copy of any documents and you need to make sure that you yourself inform DVLA that we are not the owner of the vehicle and that it has been transferred back to the dealer. Do not leave anything to chance. Do not rely on them to undertake anything. Make sure that you have taken care of every detail so that they cannot let you down.

Death forget you have only got to this point because you have threatened them and eventually forced them – but you still want to be very careful not to leave them any wriggle room. If I were you I would put a recording app on my telephone and I would keep the phone in a top pocket silently recording every part of the conversation.

If you are emailing the finance company then copy it to the dealer. If you are emailing the dealer then copy it to the finance company. Make sure everybody is in the loop so that nobody can later on say that they didn't know

[BankFodder]

Also, be aware of signing anything that suggests that it is in full and final settlement. This might deprive you of your rights to proceed further if something goes wrong.