Apprentice

[paulie100]

 

Hi,

Would just like a little advice regarding my sons employer.

I will summarise

At the moment, my son gave notice to his employer as he had been accepted to the Army.

He wanted to work until he left but someone told the boss that he had been accepted.

 

my son called the boss on the Tuesday to give notice,

the boss told him not to come in again!...

boss has always been very tight and tried to get away with pay if he could!

 

he paid my son for 2 days that week even though my son wanted to work that week and the next before he left.

 

Is my son entitled to a full weeks notice pay and his week in hand (as that wasn't paid also)?

 

Before all that my son was an apprentice with the company,

the boss refused to pay his college day which i believe he legally had to...

my son had to finish college as they said he couldnt continue as the boss was not paying for that college day...

so apprenticeship ruined.

 

I considered informing HMRC at this stage but my son didnt want me to and i respected his word on that.

 

But now, i am angry that the boss can get away with this..i want to approach it correctly.

 

Any advice welcome

Thank you.

 

[sangie5952]

Hmmm. Now this one is potentially very interesting. 

 

On a very basic level, and assuming that he had less than two years service, then yes - he is entitled to a full weeks notice pay (assuming that contractual notice isn't more), plus his week in hand, PLUS holiday pay owed (if there is any).

 

However, at a more complex level (which he may or may not wish to pursue, but the threat may be useful) an employer who enters into an apprenticeship agreement is legally bound to that agreement in full. Apprenticeship agreements are not like normal employment contracts. So your son has the option to also sue for the damages caused by that breach of contract plus, of course, any deductions the employer made (if he wasn't paid for example). Apprenticeship agreements can only be terminated in very limited circumstances, and not wanting to pay the college isn't one of them. 

 

I would suggest that he sends a letter before action, warning the employer that he has taken advice, and that he is owed £xxx for pay until.... (And just for the hell of it, put in a claim for the full notice he gave! ); plus £xxxx for the week in hand; plus holiday pay off £xxx (PLUS, if you really want to push the threat, £xxx for deductions and losses from the breach of contract with regard to the apprenticeship, plus £xxx damages for breach of contract over the apprenticeship), and that he has 21 days to pay in full or immediate legal action will begin without further notice, at which point legal and other fees will be added to the costs to the employer. 

 

If that doesn't shake loose at least the amount he's owed, put in a tribunal claim for it - you'll need to go via ACAS conciliation, but it's all free. 

[Emmzzi]

Does your son have a copy of an apprenticeship agreement signed by his employer and the college?

 

If so, what does it say?

[paulie100]

Hi, thank you for your replies. Yes he would have an agreement and a contract from the employer. He did his foundation year for plumbing in college and then went onto his apprenticeship. After about 8 months of his apprenticeship, the college discovered that he wasn't being paid for his college day. They then asked the employer to pay as he was legally bound to. The employer refused and so the college told my son that he could no longer attend due to this. The employer then employed my son basically as a labourer on a contract. My son took this at the time as he knew he wanted to go to the Army in due course. I did not stir it with the employer as my son was worried about losing his job (which would probably have happened knowing the employer). I have had to bite my tongue for a long time! I just feel very aggrieved that he has treated my son this way.

Edited April 6, 2019 by paulie100
Addition to text

[sangie5952]

I totally understand that you feel aggrieved. But does he? Because your aren't suggesting that he does. He is, quite literally, going to have to fight his own battles now. What does he want to do? 

[Emmzzi]

Hello,

 

he may be out of time for a claim on his apprenticeship,  depending on when he moved from apprentice to labourer. I think it might be a breach of contract from the employer's side. How long ago was that please?

 

If your son gave more notice than he had to, then the company can counter with a shorter notice period; so he may not be as many days out of pocket as you first think. Although I doubt they documented it properly from what you say!

 

Ultimeately I think this may come down to "does your son want the hassle?"

 

It's a relatively cheap lesson learned on the way to his proper career.

[paulie100]

Hi all, i think you may be right guys, i dropped him off at Catterick yesterday for the start of his training, and will just let him move on now. I was more aggrieved than him yes, so I will let it lie, and I'm sure he will learn from it. I'm sure the employer will come unstuck one day. Thank you all.

[ericsbrother]

As much as we detest injustice your son is now better off out of it so trying to fight this battle from a distance will be difficult. Being in the army is actually a good way of saving money even though the pay isnt fantastic because you dont have to spend much on day to day living.

He can still drop employer in it with HMRC if he feels like it. employer gets paid by govt for apprentices so you can bet they will be interested to know employer has trousered their investment.

[ScarletPimpernel]

It's not as easy to save in the Armed Forces as it was.  There are daily charges for accommodation, utilities and a monthly charge called CILOCT - Contribution in Lieu of Council Tax. Then there is food - since the introduction of Pay As You Dine the cost of eating has generally risen, unless individuals stick to the Core Meal, which is cheap, but usually dire.  However, it's still cheaper than living alone in the civilian world. For many young soldiers this will be the first time they have had a decent disposable income, and my experience is that many of them become expert at disposing of it!  Most recruits earn around £15k when they start.

 

There's some useful advice about saving in the Forces at https://www.moneyforce.org.uk/Managing-money/Save-and-invest

 

In terms of the apprenticeship issue, I think I can assure you that for the first few months of his Army career, your son will be too busy to think much about it!

[ericsbrother]

effing typical of recent govts, they insist on trainee nurses beoming undergraduates and charge them for doing so and  like this wonder why people dont want to join up.

I must admit that I preferred the rat packs to the cooked food we were served, others thought I was weird but they liked motorway food so pot and kettle