lowell CCJ re: Cap1 card - now Warrant

[Ds3Sport]

And dont forget that you have to comply with the directions by the dates stated......points 7 /10/and 11.

 

Seems a bit OTT for everyone to have to yet again supply the same documents supplied previously? No wonder things in this country move at a snails pace.

 

I don't think item 11 applies to me though as I don't have any witnesses, it's just me.

[AndyOrch]

You are the witness...if you dont submit a WS your defence will be struck out.

 

No documents have yet been disclosed to the court.

[Ds3Sport]

Received the documents Lowell are intending to present in evidence. Have attached the redacted copy here.

 

Only things I can see here are they have made a statement that I offered to pay £100 per month and failed to do that however I have never offered such an amount and they have not provided evidence to show where I did.

I would not have done that because I know I could not afford it.

I did as mentioned near the start of this thread, make several offers of £50 per month but they were declined.

 

They also have not mentioned Fredrickson International who were pursuing this before Lowell.

I made offers of £50 per month to both Capital One and Fredrickson.

I'm hoping I may still have copies of these offers but It was a long time ago so perhaps not.

 

Can they make such a statement without providing evidence?

If they can it makes it look like I entered into an agreement which I did not.

 

This all leaves me with a rather large dilemma.

I could prevent the court action from going ahead by making an offer.

This way I would avoid a CCJ but be left struggling to pay a rather large debt.

 

Or I could take a chance on my pretty thin defence and hope the court finds in my favour.

..but given the amount of evidence Lowell have and the fact that I am not disputing the amount but just the process I fear I will lose and be even worse off?

 

As usual your advice would be most appreciated.

Lowell WS.pdf

Edited June 18, 2017 by dx100uk
23Md pdf reduced < 1Mb and properly redacted- dx

[dx100uk]

they have not produced the reverse of that agreement

i'e the prescribed terms etc.

 

they are putting rather a lot of effort into portraying there was some kind of a dispute that existed before they ever got ahold of the debt.

there was no dispute.

they are trying to intimate that you admitted the debt but have produced no evidence to that fact.

 

there is a 50% discount offered, wonder why...:yawn:

[Ds3Sport]

Well this is the thing.

There never was any dispute over what I owed Capital One.

The problem arose when I got into financial difficulty.

 

Before these problems arose I knew I was struggling

I wrote to Capital One and asked if they would agree to move me to one of their lower interest rate cards.

 

 

After I had been with them for 8 years,

never missed a payment and yet they were still charging me nearly 30% interest!

 

 

The idea of this card was to improve my credit rating.

I think after 8 years I had ably demonstrated my credit worthiness.

..otherwise they would surely not have kept increasing my credit limit?

Yet apparently I was not a good enough risk to move to a lower interest rate card?

 

Capital One simply told me that in order to move to a lower interest rate I would first need to close my account, clear the balance and then apply again..but they could not guarantee I would be accepted!

Rather convenient for them.

 

 

Maybe I should have just got another credit card and did a balance transfer.

I was not that wise back then

 

When I started to struggle with the payments I wrote to Capital One and offered to pay £50 per month until my circumstances improved but they flat refused and instead suspended my account and passed it to Fredrickson International.

 

 

I made the same offer to them and they refused stating

"Our client thinks this is too small an amount".

 

 

I wrote back explaining my circumstances again and that I really could not make a higher offer because I couldn't guarantee to meet the payment every month, hence I offered what I knew I could afford.

 

 

They again refused so I told them to take me to court and let a judge decide.

I didn't hear anything for must have been nearly 12 months

and then I find the debt had been sold to Lowell.

 

At that point many people were saying just to ignore them.

Bad advice as it happens...not given here I should add!

 

So that is how we end up where we are now.

[dx100uk]

no I don't think the ignore was bad advice

CCA might have been better,

 

but as I've said in my previous post

they are trying to portray there was some kind of Dispute

which there was not

to divert the judges eyes away from they don't hold all the correct paperwork [hence the 50% discount begging letter]

and that they don't have any evidence that you did offer payments.

 

can be dealt with in your WS, when is the hearing date?

 

 

dx

 

have you checked they HAVE paid the fee?

[Ds3Sport]

Actually that was something that came to mind.

Is there a way to check online or do I need to phone the court?

 

Hearing date is 7th July

[dx100uk]

phone the court tomorrow

 

 

so you WS is due 14 days before hand

 

 

so weds thurs next week it needs to be sent recorded delivery to be sure it gets to the court in time

the copy to Lowell sols can go 2nd class...

[Ds3Sport]

Thanks. will phone the court tomorrow and then get the documents off. I expect I need to send the docs even if Lowell have missed the payment deadline just so I comply with things my side?

 

It did occur to me that Lowell may well have sent the docs to me in the hope I would settle.

[AndyOrch]

The DN refers to clause of 8 of the agreement should you breach the agreement......clause 8 in the T&Cs they have disclosed refers to monthly statements.....not a default.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

yes that's what they do

see other threads

[Ds3Sport]

unfortunately Lowell paid the court fee on the 31st May.

obviously they are pretty confident In winning.

 

Will have to try and compile a defence later today.

I think it's going to be a bit thing though because It all rests on processes not a dispute about the amount owed.

 

 

My own feeling is that a judge will lean more toward Lowell because I am not disputing that I owe the amount...which is what they are claiming.

 

Lowell know that people will be weighing up a CCJ against a payment plan and the payment plan is always the lesser of the two evils because a CCJ can have such a devastating impact on your credit record...even if that record is not great to start with.

 

I'm very reluctant to let Lowell get away with forcing me into any sort of payment plan but at the same time a CCJ not only affects me but also my wife, who at the moment has an impeccable credit record. It would greatly impact on us when trying to find a new place to live when we eventually move from here.

 

Lots to think about.

[AndyOrch]

A witness statement...you have already submitted your defence.

 

There is still a legal process to following when a creditor terminates an agreement and wishes to enforce the agreement...get a good District Judge and he will throw it out on Agreement/Default Notice/Assignment as we have seen on various threads.

 

If your credit file is not great to start with a CCJ will not make it any worse...its one and the same in the eyes of lenders.

 

The CCJ would/could only possibly effect your wife if it was a joint application for a mortgage..that effect being refused..nothing to do with her credit record.

 

Andy

[Ds3Sport]

Well I know we will be looking to buy at some time over the next couple of years so it is something to consider.

 

Also what happens if Lowell win and I have a judgement laid against me. I definitely can't afford to pay off the debt in full so where does that leave me?

[AndyOrch]

Well I know we will be looking to buy at some time over the next couple of years so it is something to consider.

 

Also what happens if Lowell win and I have a judgement laid against me. I definitely can't afford to pay off the debt in full so where does that leave me?

 

With 2 options...

 

Accept the judgment and submit a variation order to pay monthly.

Approach the Claimant now and ask if they would be prepared to consider a Tomlin Order with view to making affordable monthly payments on the proviso that they stay the claim (no CCJ)

[Ds3Sport]

I have not yet put in my Witness statement. I know it needs to go in today or tomorrow at the latest. The court is not far from me so it will be hand delivered.

 

I'm still unsure about allowing this to proceed to trial because of the risks involved in having that CCJ on my file. I know as you mentioned it does not matter in general terms but certainly it would be a very large spanner in the works as far as any future mortgage application goes and I can't do that to my wife.

 

So the way I see it is, I am not disputing that I owe the money but simply trying to avoid paying it via some legal manoeuvring i.e trying to find fault in the way Lowell have pursued the case.

 

The problem with that is it all depends on getting the right judge because from what I have been reading, many judges will rule in favour of the claimant in circumstances like mine. That is they often "overlook" the small discrepancies and go with the fact that I do actually owe the money.

 

That is quite a gamble on my part.

 

I have managed to stretch this whole thing out for over 6 years and even though I am not in any position to pay this debt off. I think that sometimes you have to know when to pick your battles and when to concede defeat...or at least a tactical retreat

 

If I had the money spare and didn't have to consider the consequences of the CCJ I would have no hesitation in fighting this. Simply because I know how Lowell operate...my wife once worked for them! and they are one of the most underhand, deceitful organisations out there. But...I DO owe the money so that's what I keep coming back to.

 

Any thoughts on that?

[AndyOrch]

So given that they have paid the hearing fee and submitted a witness statement .....the hearing will proceed....and you either take your chance and hope for a good District Judge who will follow the CCA1974 or you go for my option 2.

 

Choice is yours Sport.

 

Andy

[Ds3Sport]

Thanks Andy

 

So I just wanted to confirm that no matter what, I must still submit my witness statement today...well in fact I probably know that already but, Lowell can still cancel the whole proceeding as stated in their cover letter "Should you wish to discuss a resolution of this case without the need for a hearing, do feel free to contact us as soon as possible"

 

I know of course they will tack on their court costs etc but maybe given the alternative it's a price worth paying. If it just affected me then I would not be bothered about it all but it affects my wife if we go for a mortgage and it also affects us when looking to rent as we go through a company called Open Rent and we deal with the landlords directly. I really don't want to have to say I have a CCJ. Technically it may not mean much but it scared landlords.

[Old Cogger]

see their next move -??? they seem uncertain?? maybe

[dx100uk]

stop panicking

[AndyOrch]

Yes still submit a witness statement no matter what...then you have complied with directions....allows you a little time to consider your position up until the hearing date.

 

If you are considering opting for a Tomlin Order dont leave it too close to the trial date.

[Ds3Sport]

I'm not panicking so much as trying to make a rational decision based on the available evidence.

Lowell have nothing to lose but a court fee.

I have a LOT to lose and of course they know that which is why they pursue these cases in the first place.

 

I have had unfortunate experience of courts in the past.

..not in a civil proceeding like this but, judges are judges and they come from a certain section of society which tends to put their moralistic view above that of the technicalities.

 

I remember once sitting in court on a speeding charge.

I was a dispatch rider at the time and I was doing 50 in a 30 but on a wide stretch of quiet road with no danger to anyone.

Speeding is an occupational hazard as a dispatch rider.

 

There was a guy up before me, a business man with a lawyer.

He had been caught drunk driving down the high street swerving across the road and was a distinct danger to everyone around him.

It was also not the first time.

He got off with a fine and I got banned for 6 months!

 

That is one of the many reasons why I do place a lot of faith in our courts. It's always open to the judges discretion, unless of course you have a very good lawyer who can argue the intricacies of the law in your favour.

 

Is there a template for a witness statement?

I was just going to copy the format of the one Lowell sent.

Should I keep it short and to the point.

Simply rebuffing the statements they have made?

 

By the way,

The terms and conditions provided by Lowell as part of their evidence and that shows the interest rates for purchase, balance transfers and cash withdrawals. Isn't that the terms that would have been on the reverse of the signed credit agreement?

Or are the prescribed terms different?

 

I want to be very clear when submitting my witness statement what the difference is between what they have provided and what is actually required.

[dx100uk]

T&C's are NOT the missing prescribed terms.

 

 

read the thread again from post 66

its all there.

[Ds3Sport]

Ok I have read back but the documents they provided for the court, the Witness Statement, includes the 'Credit Agreement Regulated By The Consumer Credit Act 1974" and interest rates shown there are:

 

Purchases 29.9%

Balance Transfers 29.9%

Cash Withdrawals 31.3%

 

It also shows charges as follows:

Late or Failure to Pay Charge £20

Returned Payment Charges £20

Overlimit Charge £20

Returned Credit Card Cheque Charge £15

Foreign Currency Conversion fee 2.75%

 

As far as I know these are the correct interest fees and charges at the time of the agreement in Jan 2004

[dx100uk]

there is NO reverse of page 6 of that PDF

so the prescribed terms are missing totally