Services fees or penalty charges?

[thecornflake]

As I have stated in other peoples threads, I am following all Natwest cases with great interest as I myself intend to claim from them. I'm pretty sure it will go to the full £5000 as 6 months alone adds up to over £1200.

 

I have seen mentioned that they actually successfully defending on such case by claiming the charges were service fees. This, therefore, is my main priority at the moment.

 

I have been reading the T&C for my Advantage (yeah right) Gold account to try and find the legal standing as afr as these charges/fees are concerned.

 

I quote the following -

 

(From T&C) -

"You will pay a fee ('the service fee') in respect of the Advantage Gold service. Full details fo our fees, and when they may be applied, are given in the Advantage Gold Tariff."

 

(From the Tariff) -

"Service Fee.

£6 per month [Note - this has now gone up to £9]

The Service Fee is payable from your Natwest Advantage Gold current account. Included in your service fee is access to all the benefits listed in the brochure and user guide."

 

"If you go ... over an agreed limit you will be charged a £14 Unarranged Borrowing Fee per charging period. Additionally you may also pay the following charges -

Unpaid Item...We will charge £30 for each item we do not pay.

Card Misuse...We will charge you £25 for each item we are obliged to pay.

Paid Referral - Any items that we choose to pay which results in an unarranged overdraft, will have a reffal fee. We will charge you £35 for the day that transaction was debited...."

 

I'm not sure how to interpret this. By the way, unpaid item charge is now £38 so presumably there is a newer version of these documents which I should get hold of.

I think it could be read either way to be honest - perhaps someone here with a bit more legal knowledge could comment.

The bit about "Included in your service fee is access to all the benefits listed in the brochure and user guide" could be great if it refers to unarranged borrowing etc but I can't find copies of these.

 

I do also have a plan due to reading elsewhere on this site that I can record conversations with the bank without their knowledge (is this really true???). Basically I don't want to give too much away in case someone from Natwest (on their side) reads this but if it works it could be very useful...

 

Good luck to all other Natwest customers in their claims.

[Seminole]

The Advantage Gold fee is undoubtedly for a service as it's a regular monthly payment that you have signed a contract for.

 

The bounced items etc charges are not fees for services but are penalties if they are disproportionate to cost. Nat West one a single case some time ago using this argument. They haven't had the guts to try this again in front of a judge as they know that the response will be simple and devestating.

[thecornflake]

Thankyou for your advice. I think a list of settled cases from every other bank could be enough to overturn this argument anyway.

 

Time to open that parachute account methinks.

[thecornflake]

Sorry if this should be in the legalities section - wasn't sure.

 

I'm reading through the relevant legal documents to prepare for a full onslaught on Natwest - I really want to get this right due to them winning a case a while back and no news yet on any successful claims against them.

 

So, in the SI 1999 no 2083 0 Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999 -

 

Unfair Terms

Effect of unfair term -

8. (1) An unfair term in a contract concluded with a consumer by a seller or supplier SHALL NOT BE BINDING on the consumer.

(2) The contract shall continue to bind th eparties if it is capable of continuing in existence without the unfair term.

 

Preusmably, if you win in court using (as we are) this legal document as the main evidence that charges are unfair, this means that if the bank don't close your account in retaliation they can no longer make any further charges...

 

Does anyone here with a bit more of a legal mind have any ideas about this?

 

Moderated threads merged

[thecornflake]

This topic was closed on 09 March 2019.

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