Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Just wondering if a N244 might be an idea and try and get it back to claim stage and then at least he could attend?

[Old Cogger]

see 149 above

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Thanks OldCogger but that is to pay the debt. I think the route he wishes to take is to appeal, given that the court seems to have ignored letters and emails to alert them to the fact that he could not attend.

 

He's speaking with National Debt Line or has been doing this morning. Any other ideas?

[dx100uk]

if he did not inform the court BEFORE the date was allocated of the times he could not attend I think n245 is the way.

let andy pop in over the w/end first.

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Thanks DX.

 

Simple notified the court on 02/09/2018 as soon as the date had been set.

I'm going through the scanned copies of the documents he's received and there isn't one to advise the court of unavailability (that doesn't mean it wasn't sent as the documents are not exactly tidy - sorry Simple).

 

I have the email he sent which also attached proof of the holiday booking.

He couldn't have reasonably foreseen that the date was to be set whilst he was away given that it was booked right at the very start of the claim (claim received 31/01 and holiday booked on 02/02).

 

Let's see if Andy has any great ideas.

Have to say, I'm out of them now.

Edited November 24, 2018 by dx100uk
S

[dx100uk]

Tbh thats looking more toward another example weve seen an increase in recently..court admin error. N244 then or ring monday and complain?

 

Ok lets wait

[peterjumpingjacks1]

He's (Simple) is coming to us on Monday, I've taken the day off work to help.

 

I personally think the N244 is the way to go but it is his call at the end of the day. However, at the very least, I feel the court should be made aware of it and to see if you're right and it is an admin error on their part. This is the email he sent on the 02/09/18.

 

"Sir / Madam,

 

Judge An*** has directed that a hearing is scheduled to take place at &$*%(£& County Court on Friday 26th October 2018 at 10:30am.

 

I would like to respectfully request that the claim be heard without my presence as I am away with my wife and two small children from Friday 19th October 2018 through to our return on the afternoon of Friday 26th October 2018.

 

I have attached a copy of the invoice which shows it was pre-booked back on 02nd February 2018 for your reference.

 

Should the hearing take place and it is essential that I attend then I am prepared to leave a day early from our holiday but if it could be heard without this needing to happen I would be grateful to save any distress to my children.

 

May I respectfully request an acknowledgement to this email notification at your earliest convenience.

 

Yours sincerely,"

 

The only acknowledgement that was received back was the "read" notification the day after it was sent. I am lead to believe it was sent signed for too but I can't find any evidence of that yet amongst this shambles.

 

Nothing anyone can do until Monday now anyway, hopefully Andy will come along and give a suggestion or two but I agree, this has to be an admin error on the part of the court. I've just helped Simple put all the documentation together with a letter of complaint to the FCA and the Sols Reg. Not sent yet.

 

EDIT***Think two small children should read, two small grandchildren...

Edited November 24, 2018 by peterjumpingjacks1
think a typo

[dx100uk]

:frusty: why did he send that without checking here first...

 

he could have asked for the hearing to be postponed quite easily 9/10 it is..

THEN he could of had a chance to set aside if it went ahead

 

the wording of the above has given them permission to go ahead and IMHO an N244 now is pointless.

[peterjumpingjacks1]

It's not the best, granted, but the wording also states that the claim be heard without my (his) presence. The claim wasn't heard, as the judgement states, the defence is struck out being no attendance by the defendant. That email clearly hasn't reached the judge or the hearing or it would (in my opinion) have been heard. It does also state that the court should acknowledge (had he not sent a read receipt they should have acknowledged it) and if it was necessary to attend then he would have left holiday a day early... etc.

 

The defence struck out by non attendance implies (surely) that your original thought of admin error is the issue, and it would seem that Nat Debtline agree with you, they pretty much said the same to him this morning.

 

I'm banging my head constantly given the mess but, this is a mess made by Lowell and the case has only be judged by non attendance. I strongly suspect that the Deputy Judge wasn't even aware of the email.

 

He's retired and has little income so he has nothing to lose with the N244 and can get help with costs for it. That fails then the 245.

 

***EDIT- Just a quick thought but when he phones on Monday, if he makes a complaint to start with and see if we can find out if it did in fact reach the hearing, if they respond it didn't then surely the n244 would be worthwhile?

Edited November 24, 2018 by peterjumpingjacks1
want to add something

[peterjumpingjacks1]

DX, just wondering if I can get your advice. If he phones and makes a complaint first is that likely to hinder any 244 being put forward or should he put forward his case via the 244 and go through the process but make a formal complaint in writing after that has been submitted?

 

Last thing I want him to do now is to aggravate the court.

 

Pete

[AndyOrch]

When you complete the DQ (Directions Questionnaire) N80...question 4 asks......

 

Hearing

 

Are there any days within the the next six months when you, an expert or a witness will not be able to attend court for the hearing ? Tick box yes or no

 

Guidance....Because of Holidays or other commitments

 

You state the holiday was booked 02nd February 2018

 

Andy

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Andy,

 

That's spot on but there was no directions questionnaire sent out as I recall. The court sent a General Form of Judgement to put together a Statement of Case. I'm sure that Simple mentioned it on here, I need to go back and find it.

 

***Edit - seems he may have done. I've just read his comment on page 2. Doesn't look like he's photocopied it / scanned it so I can't be 100% sure whether he put the dates down. I guess not.

 

He did however send that email - they should have acknowledged that. I'll see what he says tomorrow when he's here and I'll speak with Nat Debtline with him as well and see if it can be sorted.

 

Post 29 - He probably worked on the exact dates and it wouldn't have fallen within the 6 month period. It would have fallen outside of it so wouldn't have stated any dates. I'll double check with him.

 

Pete

Edited November 25, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[dx100uk]

it would be far better to stick with advice from CAG

or atleast tell him not to do anything on their advise without check HERE FIRST.

 

dx

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Believe me when I say he is doing nothing without checking first. I take a proportion of the blame as I let him get on with it.

 

He's determined to speak to them but I will make sure it comes on here as well. Thanks DX / Andy... I appreciate it's the weekend and it's been a bloody nightmare one for me trying to sort this out.

 

Pete

[AndyOrch]

Yes just had a recap and my post #53...the N157 was dispensed with and the court issued a General form of judgment with regards to directions.

 

If for whatever reason a Defendant cannot attend a hearing...apart from signifying on the DQ you should file a Notice pursuant to CPR 27.9

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/part27#27.9

 

We dont know if the defendants statement was taken into account or details of that hearing...but even so the fact that not in attendance will always put you on the back foot for starters and give the claimant the upper hand.

 

I would not advise making applications to complain or appeal...simply a waste of the fee..you are not going to reverse this judgment.

 

Submit an N245 (fee £50) and get an agreed monthly payment in place....and mark this down to experience.

 

 

Andy

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Cheers Andy. I’ll see what he wants to do tomorrow.

 

I just want to be clear so I give him accurate information;

 

If he does make a complaint / appeal and fails would it have a negative impact on submitting a 245 later??

 

If you’re about and able please let me know ASAP so I can speak to him when I pick him up tomorrow.

 

Cheers,

 

Pete (now time for a beer)

[AndyOrch]

Complaint about what....?

 

He didn't attend he lost...every thread here involving claim and defences endorses the need to attend hearings and how important it is to be in attendance to present your case verbally.

 

To submit an appeal is a completely different process to making a complaint...You cannot appeal against the lower court’s decision just because you think the judge ‘got it wrong’. You can only appeal if you have proper legal grounds – for example, if you can show that the decision was wrong because of a serious mistake or because the procedure was not followed properly.You must request permission to appeal within 14 days of judgment....and submit a Notice of Appeal within 30 days.

 

If you lose your appeal, you may be told to pay the other person’s costs, including the costs of their legal representative, if they have one.

 

The current fee to issue a Notice of Appeal is £120...assuming you are granted permission to appeal

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Hi guys,

 

OK - We (as in on loud speaker) have just spoken with the court now and they have found that the email was not sent to the judge at all and it is being referred back to the Judge for Directions. Simple is to phone the court back on Wednesday as they will have more information on what is going to happen. He or I will update again then.

 

Andy, thanks for coming back to me.

 

DX - Looks like you may be right, admin error.

[SimpleMinds]

I just want to say thank you to everyone for their efforts so far. I'm hopeful that I can get this back to a court room and attend and present my case. I honestly can't thank everyone enough for everything.

[dx100uk]

urm..as I said these admin errors are getting to be quite frequent of recent

[SimpleMinds]

Perhaps they are. It is an error that hopefully can be resolved so that I can attend and then I will make a formal complaint about the admin error.

 

I need to wait now and see what Wednesday bring.

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Hi, he's been given the opportunity to appeal the case. He's completed the help with fees form and it's been submitted. The N244 has been sent as well.

 

Not sure what will come of it but that's where it is at now.

 

Cheers,

 

Pete

[AndyOrch]

How can you appeal the decision if he was not present...he has no details of how the judgment was arrived or on what points of law....appealing because the procedure was not followed properly.?

 

Have you submitted an n161 Notice of Appeal ?

 

Or simply an n244 to set a side ?

 

Andy

[peterjumpingjacks1]

Andy, he submitted an N244 as directed by the court yesterday. Not that it makes much difference now, he had a fatal heart attack at around 3am this morning and sadly passed away.

 

I'm so angry and cross and distraught but I wanted to come on and at least put this to a conclusion. I'm not sure yet if the court are aware and I'm with his wife now at ours. My personal thanks to all who contributed to this thread, I just wish I had done more and not left him to it.

 

Peter

[jon8214]

Sorry to hear that Peter