Lowell claimform - old Lloyds Credit Card debt***Claim Discontinued***

[Guest]

it seems you are not yourself convinced re stat bar.

why, what makes you think it might not be barred?

[martin2006]

Remember its for the claimant to prove its NOT SB, not for you to prove it is.

[Patma]

it seems you are not yourself convinced re stat bar.

why, what makes you think it might not be barred?

I haven't really got a reason to think it might not be barred, Ford, it's just nerves I guess.

[Guest]

I haven't really got a reason to think it might not be barred, Ford, it's just nerves I guess.

credit card

when was the last payment

when was the default (not that that matters re, just asking )

[Patma]

Yes you're all absolutely right. Good point Martin, thanks.

[Patma]

credit card

when was the last payment

when was the default

That's the nitty gritty I don't know the answer to that. I don't recall a default Notice and I know I stopped paying early in 2011 or late 2010. There is nothing on the credit file. No defaults and no negatives and Lloyds who I phoned today had no record of my name or the weird 10 digit credit card number referred to in the POC.

[Guest]

....I know I stopped paying early in 2011 or late 2010. .

when

be sure. you said 'you know'. when was it. exact date.

whilst it's for them to prove, you may need to rebut if required.

[martin2006]

But those payments were made using payslips off the statements yes?

 

For the purposes of this exercise, they could have been paid in by anybody couldnt they, not necessarily you?

 

They have to prove that you made any payments to the account within the last six yrs to blow SB out of the water. It would seem impossible that they could do that given they would need the payment slips, signed by you to prove you made the payments.

See where this is going now? Down the pan for the claimant!

[Patma]

I don't know the exact date I only know the time period as stated. Having checked the credit file today and there being no default shown it would seem to show that 6 years have passed.

[Patma]

But those payments were made using payslips off the statements yes?

 

For the purposes of this exercise, they could have been paid in by anybody couldnt they, not necessarily you?

 

They have to prove that you made any payments to the account within the last six yrs to blow SB out of the water. It would seem impossible that they could do that given they would need the payment slips, signed by you to prove you made the payments.

See where this is going now? Down the pan for the claimant!

Yep I see. So even if my recollection of when payment stopped is wrong,(which I don't think it is) then you're saying that such payment slips would not be kept?

[Guest]

yes, they have to prove. but, once they discharge their burden then its on the def to rebut.

eg if they come up with a statement showing a payment, then they wld have discharged their burden on to the def.

[martin2006]

True but they also have to show that the OP made the payment themselves,

which would be nigh on impossible if payment slips were used,

could have been you Ford, who would know?

[Guest]

true, if it boils down to accepting payments were made but who made certain payments.

again though, it wld be on balance.

on balance it wld not be accepted that Ford made the payments unless there was proof to show such

[dx100uk]

and they don't get the payment slips either

to date of the claims ive done where its know slips were used

neither have been lost

one was even 18mths within the 6yrs

 

you cant mix anything with an SB defence.

[martin2006]

Agreed, its SB defence, nothing further required re payment slips etc

[Patma]

There has been a development in that I've searched the house and found some old credit card payment receipt slips,

for the 2 Lloyds credit cards which have proper 16 digit numbers on them.

 

Armed with these I rang Lloyds again and was re-directed to their Recovery department.

They didn't have the information any more as to when the last payments were made though as they had both been sold.

 

One of them was sold to our friends Lowells and the other one to 1st Credit.

 

I now have therefore a 16 digit number which must refer to Lowell's claim

but I'm wondering why they haven't quoted it in the POCs instead of this 10 digit number which doesn't refer to anything recognisable.

[dx100uk]

as they will to try and hide facts

remember 85% of court claims are never challenged

[Patma]

That's a reassuring statistic thanks dx.

Ok so having mulled it over I think I'm ready to go for it with the defence. So just the basic statute barred one you gave me yesterday?

[AndyOrch]

I think the fact that they are quoting an unknown account number may allow you you to challenge this and have a little fun along the way at their expense.I personally do not think you should use the SB defence...as to use the SB defence acknowledges that you know what account they refer to.

 

If thats the account number they wish to rely on then they will have to produce a credit agreement in connection...of course sometimes DCA change the account number to their own reference but the the original OC and reference number should be always quoted on any connected paperwork.

 

Just my thoughts

 

Andy

[Patma]

Thankyou for that Andy, that's the way my intuition has been taking me too.

How would you go about having the fun then please?

[AndyOrch]

Simply defend the claim using the holding/put them to strict proof to disclose...they cant disclose an agreement with that reference number if it does not exist.

[Patma]

Thanks. Is there a template for that somewhere please?

[Patma]

Do I begin with a CPR 31.14?

[AndyOrch]

Yes send both the CCA and CPR asap and then you can refer to them in your defence.

 

Here is a standard credit card holding defence...you will have to edit to suit their particulars of claim numbering

 

#######Defence####### Example

 

1. The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim are vague and generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.

 

2. Paragraph 1 is noted. I have in the past had financial dealings with XXXXXXXX (insert OC) .I am unaware of what alleged debt the claimant refers to having failed to adequately particularise its claim.

 

3.Paragraph 2 is denied I am unaware of what account the claimant refers to.

 

4.Paragraph 3 is denied I cant ever recall receiving any Notice of Assignment from August 2012 or ever having being approached pre litigation with regards this alleged debt.

 

5.It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:

 

(a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement under account number xxxxxxxxxxx; and

(b) show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and

© show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;

 

6. On receipt of this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my section 78 request and remain in default and with regards to my CPR 31.14 request.

 

 

7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.

 

8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.

 

 

9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.

[Patma]

Thanks so much for that Andy. I actually sent Lowell's a CCA request for this debt a year ago when they first contacted me. To date they have not responded. I still have a copy of the letter and the proof of postage. Should I send another now?