Avon

[laineynic]

In April this year my daughter was approached by an Area Manager for Avon.

The woman was recruiting my daughters friend and sold Avon well and truly to my daughter

on how she could make losta of money and buy products etc.

 

My daughter was only 16 and needed me to sign the contract.

I stupidly agreed to it. In hindsight I wish I had gone with my instincts and said "no.

 

The first order was placed and the goods arrived.

My daughter took the goods to school handed it all out a

nd was promised by her friends we'll pay you later.

 

By July she had not collected all the money

- some of her friend had left school and she had not contact with them.

I had several conversatins with Avon and explained to them the circumstances.

I felt that they didn't believe me and they began demanding money and adding charges.

 

In August the mum of one of the girls sent a cheque to me for the things she had bought.

I sent a cheque to cover the balance remaining,

I postdated the cheque to allow for the cheque I had been given to clear.

 

Avon took no notice of my letter explaining not to bank the cheque.

They banked the cheque and it went through before the cheque I had been given cleared.

They charged me £15.00 for the bounced cheque and my bank charged me £35.00 as well.

Leaving me with £50.00 worth of charges.

 

All I asked them to do was wait 2 days before banking but thet tell me for security reasons they can't do this.

 

I still have £49.98 owing on this - but I am so angry at the lack of response from them that I feel the £50.00 worth of charges should outway what I owe them.

 

I should never have got involved with Avon I wish I had said no.

But I am more annoyed that they aren't doing anything about there area manager

who is out there recruitng 16 year old kids to sell Avon.

I also made the mistake of allowing my daughter to trust friends to pay her.

 

Every time I send a letter to somplain I receive a letter back from the finance section telling me that £49.98 is outstanding and I need to pay it.

 

I will have to pay it, but I will hold out to the last minute as I think Avon are in the wrong for not doing anything.

[Bookworm]

They charged me £15.00 for the bounced cheque and my bank charged me £35.00 as well. Leaving me with £50.00 worth of charges.

 

Reclaim the £15.00 penalty charge from Avon and the £35.00 from your bank.

[robert_harper_2000]

Also remember for future ref. Get your money first!

[laineynic]

Today I received a threatening letter from Avon's solicitor. She told me that it is illegal to write a postdated cheque.

 

"I have now had the oppurtunity to fully investigate this matter and would advise you that although it is not illegal to write a postdated cheque it is illegal to send a cheque knowing that there is insufficient funds in your bank account to facilitate payments."

 

 

"Clearly by post dating your cheque and the fact you then went subsequently overdrawn would appear to infur that you knowingly wrote a cheque to be drawn on an account which contains insufficient funds. I therefore do not believe that Avon cashing that cheque is responsible for the charges you incurred."

 

That was why the cheque was postdated - All I asked of them was to wait 4 days that was all. I accept postdated cheques from many of our customers were I work. I never think about it being illegal. If you are asked just to wait a couple of days so what? How dare she imply I never intended paying this money. She is implying I am a liar and I don't like that. I am honest and a hard working person. I run a home and extremely busy office I have to be homest, I am no liar.

 

I wish to god I had never allowed my daughter to get involved with Avon. i hold my hands up it was my fault for letting her. Surely Avon should take some responsibilty for allowing Area Managers to recruit 16 year old kids.

 

I spoke to my bank today and they refunded the bounced cheque charge £35.00 so I wrote the cheque and cleared the account.

 

It's amazing though Avon have only responded to the outstanding balance of £49.99 and not a thing about area Managers recruiting 16year olds to sell there products. Avons customer services is only worth 1/10 in my book and even that is to much.

 

 

Citi settled =£252

Monument settled = £253

Capital 1 settled = £295

GMAC ERC = £1811.13

Lloyds Tsb = Moneyclaim form sent for £1343 4th Dec 2006

[Bookworm]

Today I received a threatening letter from Avon's solicitor. She told me that it is illegal to write a postdated cheque.

Wrong. A cheque is an instruction to your bank to pay funds at such date, and it is not illegal to do so at all. Ask her to quote you the legal text where it says it is illegal.

 

 

"I have now had the oppurtunity to fully investigate this matter and would advise you that although it is not illegal to write a postdated cheque

Well, is it or is it not illegal? Is she confused or did you misread her letter?

 

it is illegal to send a cheque knowing that there is insufficient funds in your bank account to facilitate payments."

 

Again, ask her to quote the text where it says so. You gave instructions to your bank to pay a cheque on a certain date, when you knew where they would be funds. If you had sent a non postdated cheque, her argument might hold water, but she can't have it both ways!

 

"Clearly by post dating your cheque and the fact you then went subsequently overdrawn would appear to infur that you knowingly wrote a cheque to be drawn on an account which contains insufficient funds.

 

Er no, you wrote a cheque to be cashed on a date where you knew there would be funds, and they cashed it before the funds were available. What is she on about?

 

I therefore do not believe that Avon cashing that cheque is responsible for the charges you incurred."

 

I'm sure she doesn't, but that's neither here nor there.

 

What charges is she talking about though? You say that the bank refunded you the £35. What about the £15 they charged you? Are you going after them for that? You should, you know. Even if what she said was true (which it isn't) the fact remains that £15 for a bounced cheque does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of their loss, and is therefore a penalty, and unlawful at common law, and therefore reclaimable.

[JonCris]

The bank refunded the £35 because they should not have accepted the cheque prior to its date..

 

As BW states the solicitor for Avon is talking unmitigated rubbish. Please tell us who they are! I like to keep records of the idiots

[laineynic]

After reading comments from both of you I have re done my letter. I had thought I should just pay the whole lot and leave it at that. It has been going on so long. Your comments made me realise that it is more than likely a way of scarring me into to paying the whole lot. So I have written a cheque for just £35.00 and hope this and the letter will end them.

 

There is no company name of solicitors it just says Her name and the fact she is a trainee solicitor for the legal tam. I won't name her in case it is illegal to do so.

 

Thanks for your help and advise.

 

Lainey

[chesham]

I would have thought the cheque would not have been accepted by Avon's bank if they cashed it before the date on it? And it's common sense to say a post-dated cheque was done so for a reason.

 

This trainee woman has not got anything against you as she has NO evidence at all that you intended not to pay, as you would be able to prove that on the date on the cheque, you had sufficient funds in which to pay them.

 

Don't let the legal team scare you - it's their job, but it doesn't mean to say that because you are a 'solicitor' then you are in the right.

[JonCris]

It isn't illegal. Also as a trainee & her letter to you it appears she needs closure supervision

[demon_x_slash]

That's a thought JC - any way of finding out who her direct boss is and sending him a letter informing him that his trainee is making false accusations and defaming your character...?

 

EDIT: Plus, what are the legalities of getting 16yr olds into contracts like this? Can a debt collection department actually demand money from a 16 year old?

[becka]

A 16 year old cannot take out a credit agreement ... however it wasn't the 16 year old that signed up from the sounds of it - it was Laineynic, so morally Avon's practice of getting a 16 year old to sign up is a bit dubious but they have covered their back by getting it done by the parent

 

RE postdating a cheque The BBA (British Bankers Assoc) states "Sometimes customers 'post-date' a cheque. This is a date in the future and essentially means that the customer intends that the bank will not pay the cheque earlier than the date inserted on the cheque. If a post-dated cheque is paid in before the date on the cheque the bank may pay it or return it marked ?post-dated'. Most banks do not encourage post-dating cheques. You should be careful to ensure that a post-dated cheque is not presented to a bank before the date on the cheque. Some banks state in their terms and conditions that they will pay a post dated cheque on first presentation if the cheque is otherwise in order."

 

As a cheque is essentially a promise of payment to be cashed on request by post dating it, it actually stops the piece of paper from being a cheque - it is entirely at a company's discretion if they hold back post dated cheques or not

[JonCris]

That's a thought JC - any way of finding out who her direct boss is and sending him a letter informing him that his trainee is making false accusations and defaming your character...?

 

EDIT: Plus, what are the legalities of getting 16yr olds into contracts like this? Can a debt collection department actually demand money from a 16 year old?

 

No they can't they can only demand payment from the guarantor who signed the agreement.

 

Also if the writer is claiming to be a trainee solicitor you can check here Law Society of England and Wales - Find a solicitor

 

You will aslo be able to establish their place of employment & probably their supervisor

[breadline]

I sent a few months of post dated cheques to moorecroft, a cheque went through 2 weeks! early. I insisted on knowing why the bank did not pick this up. ( lloyds)

 

Apparently cheques under a certain amount ( £15.00) are not looked over in full:o and by doing this on the smaller amounts the time saved is less costly than the mistakes made as they are very few. This is going back many years so the pay amount thats checked may of raised..

 

Needless to say they paid up.

 

I do hope you get this problem sorted.

My own case with Avon was awfull they default people quickly aswell, you just have to kick them very..hard.

[JonCris]

Yes they default at the drop of a hat much like all of the mail order companies.

[:Boy:]

They defaulted my wife, and now threating her with a CCJ as well, as if a Default is not enough. They do talk through there arses, you should see some of the correspondance that I have got from them, but that's another story.

[laineynic]

Today I received a letter saying to me that they would accept the cheque for £35.00 that I sent them as settlement in full.

 

So thats the end of this saga, and the last time that I ever deal with Avon.

 

Thanks to the consumer Action Group for all the advice you gave me. It once again paid of.

 

:D