Bought something from USA, now have Border Patrol/Counter Terrorism wanting to meet me.

[blackfriar]

Hi there!

 

I wonder if anyone with some legal knowledge can help me out.

 

 

I purchased a "12ga Micro Rig" and some shell holders from a custom nylon gear company in the states.

 

 

it is a Cordura nylon shotgun shell holder vest thing.

I do not yet own a shotgun, but I will be buying a gun cabinet and applying for a Shotgun Certificate in the New Year.

I really want to get into Practical Shotgun (sport target shooting) as it looks like awesome fun!

 

I have ordered and paid for bits of nylon and velcro from the US and they have been held up at UK customs in Coventry for nearly a month now.

 

 

None of the goods are controlled and I certainly have not broken any laws by importing them.

I've made a few attempts to contact Parcelforce about the delay and have been met with an answer of "Sorry, it's out of our hands!".

 

Yesterday, mid morning, two plain clothes gentlemen knocked on my flat door while I was at work.

Girlfriend was in.

They did not introduce themselves, nor did they show any identification.

They had what looked like an A4 print-out, and it appeared to have bullet-points or small images on it.

 

 

One of them asked for me by name,

then asked for my mobile number (which she gave).

 

 

The GF noticed they both had "cheap, tacky looking" dark nylon wallet-like things on their chest (no lanyards) with "POLICE" on the front in big bold letters.

 

 

My GF said to me they looked like something you'd buy from Ebay and it made her suspicious at the time.

They said thanks, bye and cleared off.

 

I have received no phone calls from "them" since.

I called Police Scotland on 101 and the cops ran a check against my name and address and found nothing against my details, nor did they have any history of the visit.

 

 

After waiting at home ALL DAY for a visit from uniformed police which never happened I was starting to feel pretty confused However, I received a call from a female this evening who said she can confirm "they" were indeed genuine police officers at the door and said they were from Police Scotland Border Patrol.

 

 

It seems this branch of the police is engaged in counter-terrorism and fighting organised crime amongst other things.

She said they would be in touch for a chat with me tomorrow.

 

 

I really could do without a "chat" from counter-terrorist detectives on a rare day off, let alone have mysterious figures turning up at my doorstep again scaring the doo-doo out of us!

 

Now, I have nothing to hide - but

a) I do not want to waste another one of my precious days off talking to police about a nylon/velcro vest and

b) the goods I ordered are not illegal to own, and I have paid for them so I believe I should receive them without further delay.

 

Simultaneously, I do not want to go about this the wrong way.

If you were in my position, what would you say/do in order to get this cleared up ASAP.

Cheers folks!

 

Here's a link to the thing we are talking about: https://www.originalsoegear.com/products/12ga-micro-rig

[dx100uk]

oh I do like this story

its a real change to have something different to deal with.

 

 

if I were you

I would be just as honest as you have been here

it'll work out fine.

 

 

I quite rightly think they have a duty to investigate this

and I quite rightly think it will all be simply resolved

 

 

you've probably simply shall we say 'hit a flag' on what you've imported

and confused the be-jesus out of them

as I dare say these items are available in the uk , but it puzzles them why you've ordered them from afar shall we say.

 

 

just tell them what you have told us here

and they'll be on their way.

 

 

now if you ever see the items, might be another matter.....

 

 

dx

[BazzaS]

It would be hard to come up with an alternate purpose for that rig other than to hold ammo for shooting (except as a prop for acting).

 

The police will want to do a risk assessment, looking at the reasons why you want such a rig.

 

Are you a member of a gun club?

Have you shot any firearms / shotguns on private land?

Have you shot any firearms / shotguns at a club?

Have you shot "practical shotgun", and if so, with Section 1 or so Section 2 weapons?

Have you any (spent or unspent) convictions or cautions?

 

"Simultaneously, I do not want to go about this the wrong way.

If you were in my position, what would you say/do in order to get this cleared up ASAP." :

I'd answer their questions truthfully and honestly.

 

Whilst the item isn't prohibited, it isn't a run of the mill item and has "raised flags" ; being caught in a lie or caught not able to explain an answer might make them conclude you may not be "a fit & proper person" to hold a firearms certificate (when you later apply for one).

 

I was a counter-signatory to an application for a shotgun certificate almost 20 years ago. The applicant had had an exemplary career with HM Forces, retiring as a senior NCO. I had no qualms as to their suitability : even so, they declared a minor conviction from their youth (hitchhiking on a motorway slip road, when they were 17!)

 

As for "I really could do without a "chat" from counter-terrorist detectives on a rare day off" : you are just going to have to deal with it!.

 

Showing you are "pretty confused and beep"' when their response is entirely reasonable might give them pause as if you are of "sufficient temperate character" to hold a firearm certificate.

 

When I applied for my Section 1 certificate (almost 30 years ago!) I got a 6.15 am visit from 2 officers. No doubt they wanted to check I did indeed live at the address I had stated, and seeing my response to the unannounced early morning visit may well have given them an opportunity to see if my response was reasonable or intemperate!

 

If someone has ordered a similar rig from the USA, I'd imagine Customs would flag the import to the police so they can assess. if the purchaser is a bona fide purchaser buying it for work, for sports use, or a fantasist "gun nut" .

 

Can you imagine the outcry if the purchase wasn't looked into and the purchaser went on a firearms rampage?

Edited December 8, 2016 by Andyorch
edited

[unclebulgaria67]

If you think about this, you will want the Police to clear you from enquiries.

 

You bought something from America that is gun related, yet you hold no gun licence. This is flagged to counter terrorism because they might think you have unlicenced weapons and are planning the next big massacre of innocent civilians. The Police can't take any chances because if such an event did happen, they have a warning flag on their systems, but have not completed enquiries. So if you don't cooperate quickly, you might have an armed response team coming to your flat without warning.

 

Secondly at some point you will want to apply for a gun licence for your hobby and if you are not totally cleared, then you won't be getting a licence.

[blackfriar]

Thanks for the advice and words of wisdom.

 

The only irritating thing, in my eyes, is I have paid for an item which is being withheld from me despite it not being legally controlled. I certainly would not have attempted to import anything illegal.

 

Conversely I also agree with you the police need to follow leads to keep us safe, so I won't be wasting their time by getting into any arguments about the said goods.

 

Thanks again!

[unclebulgaria67]

Thanks for the advice and words of wisdom.

 

The only irritating thing, in my eyes, is I have paid for an item which is being withheld from me despite it not being legally controlled. I certainly would not have attempted to import anything illegal.

 

Conversely I also agree with you the police need to follow leads to keep us safe, so I won't be wasting their time by getting into any arguments about the said goods.

 

Thanks again!

 

When you look at the item and imagine how it looked on an xray machine at customs, you will see why there is a reaction.

 

They might think you are planning something and already have guns.

 

Suggest that you urgently resolve this, to save yourself facing a very upsetting experience, if armed Police attended your property to search it.

[BazzaS]

Thanks for the advice and words of wisdom.

 

The only irritating thing, in my eyes, is I have paid for an item which is being withheld from me despite it not being legally controlled. I certainly would not have attempted to import anything illegal.

 

Conversely I also agree with you the police need to follow leads to keep us safe, so I won't be wasting their time by getting into any arguments about the said goods.

 

Thanks again!

 

I asked some questions earlier that remain relevant to BOTH the release of the rig AND any future FAC application by you.

Far from "getting into any arguments about the said goods" you want to get this resolved.

If you are argumentative : poor outcome.

If you say "I'm not bothered about the rig any more" you'll look like a fantasist trying to now hide that and who is now being uncooperative.

 

You don't have to answer the (relevant!) questions I've asked, but don't be surprised when the police ask them (probably now, and certainly if you apply for a FAC!)

[blackfriar]

Again, thanks Bazza. I will take these questions on board now, and later when I apply for a licence.

 

I certainly do want to receive my goods as I have paid for them!

[unclebulgaria67]

Again, thanks Bazza. I will take these questions on board now, and later when I apply for a licence.

 

I certainly do want to receive my goods as I have paid for them!

 

You won't get the goods until the Police have completed their inquiries.

 

I am actually reassured by your situation that the UK does have good border security and is asking questions.

[Ganymede]

Again, thanks Bazza. I will take these questions on board now, and later when I apply for a licence.

 

I certainly do want to receive my goods as I have paid for them!

 

You will get them eventually, I'm sure.

 

But you need to suck it up and accept that if you're importing gun related products questions are going to be asked and you may have to wait a little while.

[ThedaBara]

Perhaps you should have got the gun licence first... TB

[BazzaS]

Perhaps you should have got the gun licence first... TB

 

Or (since the OP still hasn't answered) : joined a recognised club .... or actually shot 'practical shotgun'. We just don't (yet) know.

 

Good news for the OP : if they ARE going about this the right way, even if they won't get detailed advice here (as a result of them not replying to questions), there will be lots of support and advice from the club / their instructors.

 

There will be an expectation of a sensible approach : having shot before, joined a club, undergone instruction, rather than "hey it'd be cool to shoot practical shotgun with a semi-automatic shotgun, and how cool would I look wearing that rig!".

 

If it is the latter: OP will no doubt get their rig eventually, but will be flagged as a potential risk, (and I don't mean just the risk they may earn a Darwin award trying to make a pump-action shotgun into a sawn-off!)

[unclebulgaria67]

Perhaps you should have got the gun licence first... TB

 

I did think that it was like buying a cart might make people believe you have access to a horse. The Police and security services might believe that someone buying a multiple cartridge system for shotguns, may well have access to shotguns without having any licence. Although the goods bought might not be controlled and for example simply be a christmas present for a friend, i can understand why customs officers alerted the Police.

[BazzaS]

Or bought it in the UK (for £193, rather than $150 basic cost, but avoiding the added international shipping costs, and VAT and excise duty, as well as not coming to the attention of Customs .....)

 

http://www.brownells.co.uk/epages/UK.sf/en_GB/?ObjectPath=/Shops/UK/Products/45031100007739/SubProducts/100007739

[blackfriar]

So just to update - the Border Patrol detectives telephoned me and we had a quick chat. They asked if I knew what was inside the package. I told them why I wanted it, and confirmed my goods were not controlled in any way.

 

They were very polite and friendly, and said they had no further concerns. Within a few days I received my goods via Parcelforce.

[citizenB]

That is good news this is now resolved blackfriar