Ring claim query

[penmarine]

Hi guys

 

 

I've emailed the insurance company with the sellers contact details to obtain whatever info they need.

 

 

I'd not accepted the offer out of hand and told them if something untoward has taken place, to contact the local authorities so the seller can be looked into.

 

 

It's got to the point where I've done the investigation teams work after being made it out be spinning a yarn.

 

 

I will preserve as I don't like being made to feel like I've done something wrong.

 

 

The ball is clearly in their court

[unclebulgaria67]

Unlikely the Insurers will contact the seller of the ring and they won't report to relevant authorities.

 

I suspect the Insurers will stick to their offer for the ring and you will end up going to the FOS.

 

My instincts are telling me that there is a problem between what is described about the ring, the valuation for this and what you paid. If the seller obtained the GIE valuation on the ring, it might be that the actual ring received by you, is not the same as on the valuation. The Insurers jewellers have looked at the valuation specification and what the value of the gold/diamond would have been wholesale. They then compare this with what you paid and it does not add up. No seller is going to be in business for long selling items below their intrinsic value.

 

How long has this Ebay seller been around and has anyone else had the ring/valuations checked ? Anyone post a review against the seller. The trouble is most people won't find there is a problem, until they come to make an imsurance claim or they go to a high street jeweller for a new valuation.

[penmarine]

Hi Uncle Bulgaria just had a look online only 6 neutral in the last year with over 800 positive and he has been an eBay member for 5 years. I do have set of ear rings bought from him which I'm now going to get valued somewhere else to compare. I understand the insurance stance, it's not my fault I won an auction with a lower bid than the ring valued. It's the chance you take.

Unlikely the Insurers will contact the seller of the ring and they won't report to relevant authorities.

 

I suspect the Insurers will stick to their offer for the ring and you will end up going to the FOS.

 

My instincts are telling me that there is a problem between what is described about the ring, the valuation for this and what you paid. If the seller obtained the GIE valuation on the ring, it might be that the actual ring received by you, is not the same as on the valuation. The Insurers jewellers have looked at the valuation specification and what the value of the gold/diamond would have been wholesale. They then compare this with what you paid and it does not add up. No seller is going to be in business for long selling items below their intrinsic value.

 

How long has this Ebay seller been around and has anyone else had the ring/valuations checked ? Anyone post a review against the seller. The trouble is most people won't find there is a problem, until they come to make an imsurance claim or they go to a high street jeweller for a new valuation.

[dacouc]

Is the Ebay seller Precious Jewels UK by any chance?

 

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Precious-Jewels-UK

[penmarine]

No mate diamond jewelry United

Is the Ebay seller Precious Jewels UK by any chance?

 

http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Precious-Jewels-UK

[unclebulgaria67]

No mate diamond jewelry United

 

 

When you look into this company you can understand why your Insurers have taken their decision. They sell enhanced diamonds and the jewellery shown on Ebay is not the one that will be sent. This is taken from their site

 

"Most of our pictures are models and not pictures of the actual item. The video clip however is taken from the actual item.

 

All our diamonds have been carefully exemined by trained experts with specialized instruments and prepared the diamond report to the best of their knowledge and professional standards. Expert opinion may reasonably wary since diamond grading is not exact science.

The appraisal is our estimate of the approximate price at which you could replace the foregoing article with comparable merchandise at a retail establishment selling jewelery of like quality. We assume no liability with regard to any action taken as a result of this appraisal."

 

Then you read the complaints.

 

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/diamond-engagement-ring-fradulant-transaction-c649072.html

 

I think this company is selling items at auction for roughly what they are worth. The bit i would be concerned about is the valuation provided by this company as it might not reflect true value of the item in the UK. In regard to your claim, i think the settlement should be based on what the ring would cost to be replaced as an enhanced diamond at current cost in the UK, plus value of gold etc. You won't get the valuation amount, as that is not a UK valuation based on the true cost of replacement in the UK.

[penmarine]

I'm knackered then

When you look into this company you can understand why your Insurers have taken their decision. They sell enhanced diamonds and the jewellery shown on Ebay is not the one that will be sent. This is taken from their site

 

"Most of our pictures are models and not pictures of the actual item. The video clip however is taken from the actual item.

 

All our diamonds have been carefully exemined by trained experts with specialized instruments and prepared the diamond report to the best of their knowledge and professional standards. Expert opinion may reasonably wary since diamond grading is not exact science.

The appraisal is our estimate of the approximate price at which you could replace the foregoing article with comparable merchandise at a retail establishment selling jewelery of like quality. We assume no liability with regard to any action taken as a result of this appraisal."

 

Then you read the complaints.

 

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/diamond-engagement-ring-fradulant-transaction-c649072.html

 

I think this company is selling items at auction for roughly what they are worth. The bit i would be concerned about is the valuation provided by this company as it might not reflect true value of the item in the UK. In regard to your claim, i think the settlement should be based on what the ring would cost to be replaced as an enhanced diamond at current cost in the UK, plus value of gold etc. You won't get the valuation amount, as that is not a UK valuation based on the true cost of replacement in the UK.

[unclebulgaria67]

I'm knackered then

 

Not really. If you go by the old saying " you get what you paid for", then you have paid a sum of money for an enhanced diamond ring at the market retail rate, decided by auction. The Insurers will pay the current cost to replace a ring of the same quality. It just won't be what the valuation states as that is not a UK replacement cost for the ring.

 

If you look at the Jewelry United website, it does state all of the information about what they are selling and even in the bad English spelling it does say that the diamonds are enhanced, it explains the process and it says because of this, they can sell items 70% less than their normal cost.

[penmarine]

I'll just wait to see what they come back then from my complaint, I'm in no rush.

Not really. If you go by the old saying " you get what you paid for", then you have paid a sum of money for an enhanced diamond ring at the market retail rate, decided by auction. The Insurers will pay the current cost to replace a ring of the same quality. It just won't be what the valuation states as that is not a UK replacement cost for the ring.

 

If you look at the Jewelry United website, it does state all of the information about what they are selling and even in the bad English spelling it does say that the diamonds are enhanced, it explains the process and it says because of this, they can sell items 70% less than their normal cost.

[ericsbrother]

problem is with their selling spiel what is normal cost? I can buy a diamond in the trade at a cost that is less than 1/6 of the retail cost but I cannot buy all and every diamond like this as the wholesale world is very much a closed shop and I dont do anywhere enough to make the majority of them want to talk to me. So let us consider an example of a 1ct round diamond. Avery good diamod of say E colour and VVS1 clarity will cost a dealer about £1400 wheras the retail (as seen on so called wholsale to the public websites) will be £5000 or so and a bit more in your jewellers. A treated stone will be typically £600-1000 depending on what the original stone was like to start off with and the retail will be typically £2-3000. However, most treated stones are still lower grade as far as clarity goes because there would be no reason to enhance something that will sell anyway. Filling is only for surface flaws and lasering carbon spots still leaves a flaw, just a different coloured one that is more acceptable to the eye.

As we are talking about something that has gone missing then we will never know what it was like to start off with if the certificate was incorrectly attributed. The lab wouldnt ever do this so the insurer should take that cert at face value unless they can prove jiggery-pokery and apply a valuation based upon that description. A good diamond wouldnt be sold on without its cert if it is over 1ct as a good percentage of the increased value lies there.

[unclebulgaria67]

Insurers won't normally take a valuation at face value, unless it was issued by a UK jeweller that conforms to relevant standards.

 

Apparently this Belgian Ebay Jeweller does its own valuations and not to any recognised industry standard.

 

If the Insurers received the valuation when the ring was specified on the Insurance, they should really have picked up that the valuation provided was not to a UK recognised standard and written to the policyholder advising them to obtain a UK valuation. They could have stated that in the event of the ring being subject to loss claim, that the correct replacement value of the ring would have to be assessed, if a UK jewellers valuation was not obtained.

 

If the OP takes the complaint to the FOS, they should concentrate on the fact that the Insurers accepted the valuation when specifying the ring and Insured the ring for the value shown. The Insurers did not send any letter warning about the valuation not being valid in the event of a claim. All the OP is seeking is a replacement ring of the same quality, as shown on the valuation the Insurers accepted to take as a specified risk.

[dacouc]

When you look into this company you can understand why your Insurers have taken their decision. They sell enhanced diamonds and the jewellery shown on Ebay is not the one that will be sent. This is taken from their site

 

"Most of our pictures are models and not pictures of the actual item. The video clip however is taken from the actual item.

 

All our diamonds have been carefully exemined by trained experts with specialized instruments and prepared the diamond report to the best of their knowledge and professional standards. Expert opinion may reasonably wary since diamond grading is not exact science.

The appraisal is our estimate of the approximate price at which you could replace the foregoing article with comparable merchandise at a retail establishment selling jewelery of like quality. We assume no liability with regard to any action taken as a result of this appraisal."

 

Then you read the complaints.

 

http://www.complaintsboard.com/complaints/diamond-engagement-ring-fradulant-transaction-c649072.html

 

I think this company is selling items at auction for roughly what they are worth. The bit i would be concerned about is the valuation provided by this company as it might not reflect true value of the item in the UK. In regard to your claim, i think the settlement should be based on what the ring would cost to be replaced as an enhanced diamond at current cost in the UK, plus value of gold etc. You won't get the valuation amount, as that is not a UK valuation based on the true cost of replacement in the UK.

 

The valuerer's website would have me looking into the claim as well...

[unclebulgaria67]

The valuerer's website would have me looking into the claim as well...

 

Yep !

 

The Insurers should really be alert to internet bought items when receiving valuations for specified items. They could have a standard letter that just warns policyholders that they should obtain UK valuations from Jewellers that comply to UK standards or risk being disappointed in the event of a claim.

 

If Insurers did this, then more customers of these foreign internet jewellers would realise that the item purchased did not have a replacement value as high as they were led to believe. Also any issues found about the items purchased, would allow them to seek a refund where appropriate.

[Ford]

spot on posts.

without a proper independent real valuation (not an e auction sellers enticement), then the insurers seem quite reasonable to enquire about it.

ok, there was the insurers sort of 'ok' at that time. but that was re the then unknown 'enhanced' diamond.

sounds harsh, but seems reasonable.

generally, if there is an item of significant value, get it properly valued independently, and tell the insurer asap.

[penmarine]

I'm now in the process of getting other jewellery valued by a high street jeweller after the chew on I'm currently going through

spot on posts.

without a proper independent real valuation (not an e auction sellers enticement), then the insurers seem quite reasonable to enquire about it.

ok, there was the insurers sort of 'ok' at that time. but that was re the then unknown 'enhanced' diamond.

sounds harsh, but seems reasonable.

generally, if there is an item of significant value, get it properly valued independently, and tell the insurer asap.

[Ford]

I'm now in the process of getting other jewellery valued by a high street jeweller after the chew on I'm currently going through

 

from what has been posted, it seemed that the 'valuation' was not really specific to yr item. but rather a kind of general 'what their items cld be worth if it was a like true diamond etc'.

eg

if you bought a ring from a car boot for say 500, and it ends being worth 3k on a proper item specific valuation. then the insurers wld have to cover the 3k (so long as it had been specified (being above their single item limit) )

[penmarine]

Hi Ford the ring was a specified item above their single item limit, I actually pay extra on top of my monthly premium for the privilege or not as the case seems to be.

 

from what has been posted, it seemed that the 'valuation' was not really specific to yr item. but rather a kind of general 'what their items cld be worth if it was a like true diamond etc'.

eg

if you bought a ring from a car boot for say 500, and it ends being worth 3k on a proper item specific valuation. then the insurers wld have to cover the 3k (so long as it had been specified (being above their single item limit) )

[Ford]

Hi Ford the ring was a specified item above their single item limit, I actually pay extra on top of my monthly premium for the privilege or not as the case seems to be.

hi. i know. but, the given valuation has since been deemed as n/a as too generic. is that correct?

maybe it cld be asked for a refund of the extra premium, or that to be added on to the claim. as a genuine mistake. not too sure how any over insurance wld be considered re a claim.

see what uncleb etc say.

[penmarine]

Hi ford the insurance think the ring I was sent is not the ring on the valuation paperwork and that the valuation isn't real either. I'm just pretty disgusted at being made to feel like I've done something wrong.

[penmarine]

I can always post a copy of the valuation up I was given and what was sent to the insurance originally

[BazzaS]

Hi ford the insurance think the ring I was sent is not the ring on the valuation paperwork and that the valuation isn't real either. I'm just pretty disgusted at being made to feel like I've done something wrong.

 

Why would it be both? Wouldn't that increase the chance it gets spotted??

 

Isn't is "safer" for the seller (so more likely to have been the case) that they would go for one of:

a) getting a different ring valued by a legitimate valuer, or

b) getting a fake valuation ...

 

You could make this point to the insurers, and get them to commit : then seek to show they are wrong!

[penmarine]

I'm not sure if it's even both, they have changed their mind a couple of times, I'm just going to wait out and see what the final response is to my complaint.

[Ford]

Hi ford the insurance think the ring I was sent is not the ring on the valuation paperwork and that the valuation isn't real either. .

thats what i meant. seems they see it as too generic (ie not specific to your ring). or as uncleb said, not real (or of no weight here)

wait see whether uncleb etc need to see the actual valuation. then can post it up.

[unclebulgaria67]

thats what i meant. seems they see it as too generic (ie not specific to your ring). or as uncleb said, not real (or of no weight here)

wait see whether uncleb etc need to see the actual valuation. then can post it up.

 

As the ring is lost, it cannot be compared to what is said on the valuation. But Insurers would have looked at the valuation and tried to estimate what would be paid for one similar to the description. They have then noted the amount paid for the ring and the sellers internet site, which casts doubt on the valuation. Let the FOS look at this if necessary, but i think the FOS will agree with the Insurers.

 

When you look at the allegations against the online jewellery company and you look at the way the internet site is constructed, there are a lot of questions. The pictures of items being sold, are not the items that are actually being sold. You have no idea whether the valuation relates to the ring being sold and it is not a valuation that conforms to a recognised industry standard.

 

What i would suggest, is that you speak to a local jewellers that provides valuations. Get them to check the quality of the earings you have and see whether it matches the valuation. Get a valuation for the earings so you know UK replacement. While you are there, speak to them about the ring you bought online which is subject to an insurance dispute. Tell them what you paid for it and see what they say about the ring valuation you have. They might say that the valuation for the ring cannot be an accurate assessment. i can't see point of posting up valuation, although ericsbrother who posted seems to know a lot about jewellery.

[penmarine]

Hi still fighting had an email from the insurance last week to say they could sort out a replacement ring with the original seller seeing as I believe the lost ring to be genuine and that I trusted the seller which I do. I've had the ear rings valued that I purchased from him and the valuation was not far off the valuation I got from the seller originally. The insurance today have offered a settlement figure of 500 pounds which they state should cover the cost of replacement with the seller. I've flatly rejected the offer as they expect me to go back to the seller to obtain a new ring to which there is no guarantee I will get a like for like replacement. I also said should is not would replace the ring when it came to the settlement figure, are these people just dragging this out for the fun of it as my the better half wants another ring sharpish. Thanks PM