John Mann attacks Ken Livingstone.

[king12345]

I watched The Big Question on tv yesterday where they debated about this.

The Jews there looked like they left quite bruised.

One thing that shocked me was that a woman said that it is ok for Israel to declare that their country is only for Jews and nobody else, while if any other governments declared something similar they would be racist.

Double standard?

Watch it, it's interesting.

Of course this post will be deemed antisemitic...

[unclebulgaria67]

This thread confirms why many politicians stay clear of religion.

 

I don't think there is any conspiracy here. Livingstone was asked questions in an interview and he simply gave answers based on what he believed were an accurate record of history. According to Livingstone the Prime Minister of Israel recently said the same in a speech he made without receiving criticism.

 

I just think that John Mann made the story bigger than it was, by going on the attack in the way he did. It therefore became a leading news story during a quiet news period.

 

As someone said, in the current world we are in, unless you are of a certain race, religion or ethnic group, you cannot talk or make jokes about something which relates specifically to one group. For example a Welshman might make jokes about fondness for Sheep, but if an English person in an office said this of a Welsh colleague, they might face a complaint.

 

Older politicians like Livingstone find it very difficult to work in the 'PC' world we are in and he is a risk to Labour if he continues to hold any role for them. There are some in the media who will use him to hurt Labour.

[Filcin]

There was an Englishman, a Welshman, an Irishman and a Scotsman all stood side by side. Can you tell which one is which ?

 

I didn't think so, so what is all this racist rubbish.

[king12345]

There was an Englishman, a Welshman, an Irishman and a Scotsman all stood side by side. Can you tell which one is which ?

 

I didn't think so, so what is all this racist rubbish.

 

The Englishman is the one with the big belly, the Welshman is chasing a sheep, the Irishman is asking the landlord to tarmac the drive and the Scotchman is the one asking for another drink.

 

Racist for some, funny for most.

Where's democracy gone if the majority has got to please the minority at all costs?

[tobyjugg2]

It all depends on which 'protected characteristic' is being protected for some.

Wait until the Baker decision is overturned...

 

Didn't John Mann vote against gay marriage?

[Consumer dude]

It all depends on which 'protected characteristic' is being protected for some.

Wait until the Baker decision is overturned...

 

 

Didn't John Mann vote against gay marriage?

 

 

'Didn't John Mann vote against gay marriage?

 

 

With a name like Mann, what's his problem ?..

[tobyjugg2]

It all depends on which 'protected characteristic' is being protected for some.

Wait until the Baker decision is overturned...

 

Didn't John Mann vote against gay marriage?

 

Oooops - I may have got an innacurate result from the truncated google search summaries tehre

Apologies - I'll check in better detail when i have time - but thought my 'question' needed instant challenging

[Consumer dude]

You mean he didn't vote against gay marriage ?..

[tobyjugg2]

It all depends on which 'protected characteristic' is being protected for some.

Wait until the Baker decision is overturned...

 

Didn't John Mann vote against gay marriage?

 

 

CORRECTION

John Mann voted for allowing same sex marriage.

 

I clearly allowed my preconceptions, generated by his appalling rant (whatever the content) to colour my overly quick acceptance of a glance at a google search.

Naughty me.

[Consumer dude]

Perhaps John Mann was attempting to ask Ken Livingstone some other question and he didn't know how to as he was shy. lol..

[tobyjugg2]

A few things here seem clear to me - not many.

 

Livingstone is pro Palestinian rights, as is Corbyn, as is Shah

Mann is fanatically pro Jewish rights, and has had an award for it

 

Livingstone is pro Corbyn

Mann is unquestionably anti Corbyn

 

Now I think being pro equal rights is THE way to be, but any fanatical support of a single groups rights to the exclusion, or even just over and above all other groups rights - is Wrong.

 

Now I've looked at what has been reported as Livingstone saying, pretty much all of which are 'true' but few are 'complete, I find the targeted reporting more offensive than even Manns' (and I agree with MOST of his politics) rant.

 

It appears that what Livingston DID say is :

 

"Let’s remember when Hitler won his election in 1932, his policy then was that Jews should be moved to Israel. He was supporting Zionism – this is before he went mad and ended up killing six million Jews.

 

and regarding Naz Shah

"Not really. I simply said what I believed to be true, which is that Naz is not anti-Semitic."

Note its regarding his statement that he believed Naz was not anti-semitic

 

What did Naz Shah say?

Ms Shah said that a “solution” to the Middle East conflict was to “relocate Israel into the Unites States”.

at the time of brutal Israeli (not Jewish) attacks on Palestine.

 

Naz Shahs statements may be pro Palestinian, but I fail to see where they are anti-semitic.

 

 

 

 

Given that even in the Wicki entry linked above (presumably approved by Jewish pressure groups) Hitler did promote Jews moving from Germany and even put in place goods transfer mechanisms to bypass restrictions which the world put on Germany to allow Jews to transfer goods from Germany - as detailed in the wiki entry which would not have been possible otherwise.

 

Now I'm not saying this was altruistic on the then German states part by any means, but it was clearly not the extermination policy that came later perhaps 'when Hitler went mad'.

 

So Livingston was politically naive - nothing new there

Naz Shah raised a silly point

 

John Mann jumped into his Israeli rights right or wrong routine and put political pressure on Corbyn

Newspapers misreported to sell copy.

 

and the result

Tolerance and understanding take a nosedive.

[tobyjugg2]

Interesting

http://www.retfordtimes.co.uk/Thousands-sign-petition-demanding-John-Mann/story-29199682-detail/story.html

 

Mann of Livingston:

"His comments are calculated to offend and are factually inaccurate. A top historian would be able to tell him that in 1932 the Nazis had no such policy. The following quote from Mein Kampf makes Hitler's views very clear."

 

Apparently Manns history is worse than Livingstones

 

Here is the link showing that such a thing (Hitler 'aiding' German Jews resettle to Israel - albeit almost certainly NOT through altruism) did occur

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haavara_Agreement