used my sister's oyster card - got caught

[pleasehelp2]

Even though i'm new on here

i've been on here enough to know that this type of 'help me' threads get posted sooo many times so here another one.

 

To keep it short:

 

i was stopped by revenue inspectors and failed to produce an oyster

(i used my sister's but as my sister was with me at the time literally with me i gave her oyster back)

 

when the inspector asked for my oyster i just said i didn't have one because my sister was terrified

and i didn't want to get her in trouble so took the responsibillity. (i'm older than her).

 

tfl sent me legal proceedings letter and now a 'single procedure justice' notice to plead guilty or not guilty within 21 days.

This 21 day ends next week thursday.

 

Because this isn't a court summons so does this mean no out of court settlement??????

 

 

also ANYONE have their number i've searched every where but can't find it.

 

i'm so stressed out.

[Stigy]

Hi,

 

I don't have their number, and to be honest that's not what we are here for.

I will however try and help you.

 

To be honest it's probably good you didn't mention using your sister's Oyster Card

as that would be immediately obvious you intended to avoid your fare.

 

 

Of course that's not to say they still don't have enough evidence against you for a charge

under the Regulation of Railways Act 1889 (more serious than that of a charge under Railway Byelaws.).

 

 

It would be good if you could give more detail on what occurred, and what charge they intend to use?

 

 

Details that would help us would include,

were you cautioned?

The charge on the letter?

Have you have any correspondence prior to this letter?

 

 

You say it isn't a court summons, but it sounds very similar to one.

 

 

It's never too late right up until the court date, to settle the matter, it just depends on TfL's stance

and what the circumstances are.

[Old-CodJA]

A Single Justice Procedure (SJP) notice IS a notice of Court action.

 

It is not a conventional Summons, but does allege an offence that will be heard in a Magistrates Court at a special 'fast track' process hearing.

 

It is used for breach of Byelaw matters in the main and gives you an opportunity to plead guilty and get the matter heard quickly, or plead not guilty and it will then be heard in a normal Court list and you get the usual opportunities to put your version of events

 

The SJP notice does not prevent you writing to TfL to ask if they will allow an out of Court disposal.

[pleasehelp2]

Thanks for the reply guys just saw this. I want to notify tfl of the whole story??? on the charge sheet it says 'contrary to regulation 7(2)e of the Public Service vehicles. But of they check cctv they can see that i used another oyster so whats the point in not wanting to tell them?

 

i agree that what ive done is stupid and i should face the consequences so i don't want to do anything thats going to put me in more trouble?

 

 

it's not a court summons i think because i asked for some advice and i was told it was a single justice procedure so no prosecutors will be there on the day.

 

 

ok so on the day i said i didnt have a valid ticket, was i cautioned? no. But the inspector gave her statement but i know that when someone is cautioned they usually get the 'anything you say may be used as evidence against you etc' right? well i didn't get cautioned (unless i blanked out).

The reason i asked for their number is i have no other way of contacting them. Nothing comes up on google. thanks.

 

guys should i send the letter i am writing to tfl?

[unclebulgaria67]

If the answer to the question is whether both you and your Sister can use the same Oyster card on the same journey together is no, then plead guilty to the offence.

 

Why don't you phone TFL to ask them whether an Oyster card can legally be used by two people travelling together on the same journey. I presume the Oyster card was touched in twice on entry ?

 

I am not sure an Oyster can be used in the way you and your Sister have used it. I think each person travelling has to have a valid ticket and if you don't then you have committed the offence breaking the byelaw. If this is correct, you might as well just accept the mistake by pleading guilty, as i am not sure a letter will make any difference.

[pleasehelp2]

i spoke to tfl and they said write a letter and the prosecution team will have a look at it. i'm not sure about the oyster thing with the sister i did not ask. i'm assuming no?

[unclebulgaria67]

https://tfl.gov.uk/fares-and-payments/oyster/using-your-oyster-card#on-this-page-5

 

You can write to the prosecution team explaining what you have done, if you touched the Oyster card twice against the reader at the station. I presume that TFL can check to see you have attempted to use the Oyster card twice. Then what you have done might make sense and you have not simply gone through the gate with your Sister. TFL might then consider an administrative charge, rather than being guilty of a byelaw offence.

 

According to the link above you can't use an Oyster card for two people on the same journey. This is because their systems don't allow it. I think if you use your Oyster card twice on entry within a certain space of time, it just assumes a mistake and charges for one journey.

[pleasehelp2]

sorry they said write an email. This was on a bus and i only touched the oyster once?

[unclebulgaria67]

Send an email then.

But i doubt it will make much difference.

Did your Sister also touch her Oyster card against the reader, then handed it to you and then you touched it against the reader ?

If this is the case, just tell them and explain that this is what you should have told the inspector, but were confused.

 

You genuinely thought it was not a problem fir two people to use one Oyster card for the journey.

Provide them with your Sisters Oyster card number.

[pleasehelp2]

i only touched the oyster card if im honest she just walked past, so i can understand why it can seem like i was fare evading. if im honest i hate people who make up excuses but i know that on this day i was in a rush as my mother was going to be giving birth so she asked me to get some stuff for her. I wasn't thinking at all stupidly because when i boarded the buss i was around 10 mins fromµy house. i did genuinely lose my oyster card and i told the inspector this so this was the only way of getting back home.

[unclebulgaria67]

Sorry you won't like this response.

 

Either you plead guilty or you tell TFL that your Sister committed the offence. It was your Sister getting on the bus without using an Oyster card or paying the fare. If the Bus has CCTV recordings, they will see it was your Sister committing fare evasion.

[pleasehelp2]

really ? because i did not have a valid oyster? it was hers....

[unclebulgaria67]

really ? because i did not have a valid oyster? it was hers....

 

Unless your Sister has a discounted card in her name and it says nobody else can use it,

 

With a normal Oyster card, anyone can use it to travel, as long as they use it properly touching in on entry and exit. With buses you touch on entry only, as there is just one fare level.

 

If your Sisters card does not prevent someone else using it, you paid for the bus fare by touching the card. It was your Sister who failed to use an Oyster card or pay a fare,

[BazzaS]

i only touched the oyster card if im honest she just walked past, so i can understand why it can seem like i was fare evading. if im honest i hate people who make up excuses but i know that on this day i was in a rush as my mother was going to be giving birth so she asked me to get some stuff for her. I wasn't thinking at all stupidly because when i boarded the buss i was around 10 mins fromµy house. i did genuinely lose my oyster card and i told the inspector this so this was the only way of getting back home.

 

If you swiped your sister's oyster once only, how many fares do you think were going to be paid?

Is your sister's oyster PAYG? Is it entitled to any discount?

 

If it is full fare & you thought you were tapping it twice: this could be an error, but this would be at odds with what you told the inspector, so you'd have to explain that too......

 

Otherwise I can see how it looks to TfL how at least one person is fare evading :either your sister or you if your sister felt you were touching in for her.

If your sister's card attracts a discount be wary of claiming you touched in & she didn't : she might then be guilty of an offence, and you too if you didn't pay your full fare!

[unclebulgaria67]

I have an Oyster card and have borrowed others.

You can't touch them twice for two people as far as i know.

One person can use the card, the other has to pay cash.

[pleasehelp2]

i didn't touch twice just one, you can't touch twice it won't work

[unclebulgaria67]

I thought that was the case.

I have seen people try and they speak to the driver to ask what they need to do.

It is when one person is trying to pay for 2 people.

 

If your Sisters card allows someone else to use it, then you paid the fare by touching on entry.

It was your Sister who failed to pay and you covered for her, by giving the card to her.

The buses CCTV will reveal it was your Sister who committed the offence

[pleasehelp2]

Guys technically i didn't use her oyster card. She was right next to me and the driver saw me hand it over to her and i told the driver i did not have an oyster card. So i got on without an oyster card!

You know those clumsy people? yes my sister is like that so i have to look after her stuff when we go out and i had her wallet.

[unclebulgaria67]

So your defence is that the driver was aware you did not have an Oystercard, you touched the Oyster card on behalf of your Sister and in confusion the driver allowed you to get on the bus without paying. The driver was fully aware that both you and your Sister were boarding with one Oyster card and did not ask you to buy a separate ticket.

 

Blame the driver for what happened and invite them to check CCTV on the bus to check that what you are saying is true.

 

Nb. I have seen London bus drivers allow people to travel without a ticket. There was an Aussie visitor who did not have either an Oyster card or the correct fare and the driver allowed her on. When i was speaking to her she commented how nice London bus drivers were.

[pleasehelp2]

that's not my defence i did not blame the driver because i was the one that got on the bus without a valid ticket. The driver isn't really going to be responsible. I totally understand where you're coming from it makes sense, but the driver could also say i wasn't aware of what was going etc maybe he wasn't concentrating.

[unclebulgaria67]

Up to you to do what you think is right as you are the person who was there.

 

But the driver is responsible for making sure passengers who board either tap in their Oyster card or buy a ticket.