Chandlers website caused late payment re:CTAX - now they want extra £350!!

[j__]

Hello,

 

I've been paying off Bailiffs monthly for unpaid council tax.

I was late paying last month.

I thought I'd paid off the last instalment this month and all was fine.

That was until I got a call saying they'd been round again

~£350 charges for the late payment.

 

This is obviously extremely frustrating,

the council tax debt has been fully paid off,

these charges are for nothing.

 

 

I've phoned the agent and he's saying there's nothing he can do,

he needs the money now and if he doesn't get it,

he'll be round my mums house to remove her goods

because the debt is registered there,

 

 

he's saying he'll take what he wants because it'll be on her to prove that the stuff isn't mine.

 

 

I don't have the money, he's saying he can't wait the 2/3 weeks til pay day

and although it's a stupid reason,

 

 

the reason I was late paying was because Chandlers got a new website

and I couldn't find the payment line number,

 

 

I was at work so couldn't spend too much time looking for it and didn't look again for a few days.

 

Is there anything I can do here??

 

 

I've paid the debt off,

 

 

how can they legitimately charge £350 for a late payment, it's insane!!

[fkofilee]

Well have you had a breakdown of said charges?

[j__]

It was broken down to;

 

Breaking agreement

I can't remember the wording but something that read as misc charges

Visiting to drop the letter

[dx100uk]

if you have proof it was their website that caused the problem then complain in writing.

 

I assume you got a notice of enforcement at some point?

giving you 7days before the visit + £75 fee if you didn't pay in that time?

 

and now they have attended and added the £235 fee too?

 

no they cant take stuff not yours

simply refuse to let them in.

 

dx

[j__]

It was just everything was moved around, I had the bookmark saved on there old one so just went on that to make the call. When they changed the site that page went and the number is somewhere pretty obscure, not on the contact pages or anything like that. I couldn't use the online payment either, doesn't work with my name/ref number.

 

I must have, it's my mum's address though and I don't live there so the first I heard of it was when he came round to drop the letter.

 

I guess I know a bit more than these people hope for, the guy was lying through his teeth, I called him on each lie but the one he got me with was that if I don't pay it now he'll be round with the removals team and the charge will go up further...? I wasn't sure if he can do this before he's made the list?

[Bailiff Advice]

I would be very surprised if their website was 'down' for more than a few hours but I fear that a complaint along these lines will not assist you as the council (who are ultimately responsible for the actions of the enforcement company) will merely advise you that there is a statutory obligation on the enforcement company to provide their contact details on the Notice of Enforcement and that you could have made payment by telephoning the company.

[j__]

Yeah, I understand it's on me that I paid it late, it was just one of those things - was busy at work and thought I'd do it later, get home, deal with kids etc didn't remember I hadn't done it for a couple days.

 

I've gone to the council and written to the head of revenues, explaining that the debt has in fact been paid and asking for them to bring it round and close the account, with a complaint about the enforcement agents practices, saying he'll be round with a van next although he hasn't gotten into the property etc a lot of lying and attempts at intimidation. I'm just hoping they get back to me before they come round again and put the charges up in case they won't deal with it.

[Bailiff Advice]

Hello,

 

This is obviously extremely frustrating, the council tax debt has been fully paid off, these charges are for nothing.

 

I've paid the debt off, how can they legitimately charge £350 for a late payment, it's insane!!

 

Unfortunately, the council tax debt has not been 'paid off'. It has merely been partly paid.

 

This is because, in 2014 when the enforcement agents regulations were overhauled, the laws were changed to provide that when payment is made (either to the enforcement company, local authority or even magistrate court (in the case of court fines) after the debt has been passed to the enforcement company the Compliance Fee of £75 must be deducted at source and the balance apportioned on a pro rata basis as outlined in the following page:

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?453047-Bailiff-enforcement-Setting-up-a-payment-arrangement-and-whether-you-can-pay-the-court-or-the-council-direct

[j__]

Ah ok, so this £350 isn't going to go?

 

What would you advise is my best course of action? I offered to pay the £350 when I get paid in 2/3 weeks but the agent wouldn't accept it, said it had to be now

[Leakie]

How did the EA get the £350 figure?

 

If you had paid what you thought was the full amount,

 

They can only charge you £310 at this point,

 

The amount you paid late did this include the 1st £75?

 

and how many visits have you had

 

 

 

i

[Bailiff Advice]

How did the EA get the £350 figure?

 

If you had paid what you thought was the full amount,

 

They can only charge you £310 at this point,

 

The amount you paid late did this include the 1st £75?

 

and how many visits have you had.

 

I am assuming that the debt to the local authority was over £1,500 and the 7.5% 'surcharge' has been applied. I may be wrong.

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2014/1/schedule/made?view=plain

[j__]

They initially charged the whole year but the house was only occupied about 9 months so it went down to ~£880.

 

I believe so, this month should have been the final £200 to pay everything off.

 

It just said costs.

 

This is the first visit, although initial letter was in December, to my old address.

[Leakie]

So if you had paid the CT to the EA did it include the £75

 

As BA has stated if the amount was over £1500 then any amount over the £1500 would incur 7.5% interest.

 

The amounts you have quoted it would seem this is not the case

 

The most you would owe Chandlers is the £310

 

You need to get a breakdown of the £350, then may be it will become clearer.

 

Leakie

[j__]

I've just got off the phone with them, apparently the council added £37 to it in Jan, not sure why or how but that's where it has come from.

[Tuco]

Unfortunately for the council, much as they'd like to, they cannot simply add £37 here and there when they feel like it. They have to pursue the figure granted on the liability order.

 

 

Unfortunately for you, many people miss their last payment, many see this as a last act of defiance. Bailiffs are ready when this happens and don't hang around.

 

 

£40 is way too much for it to be as a result of the 7.5% add on. You need to question whether this £37 should be lawfully collected.

 

 

As they are visiting your mothers house, all she needs do is drop a short line to the bailiffs, informing them that you do not reside there and that she does not want them visiting or harassing her. She should also state clearly that she is refusing permission to enter her home

 

 

Lets see them touch her stuff then.

[renegadeimp]

Unfortunately for the council, much as they'd like to, they cannot simply add £37 here and there when they feel like it. They have to pursue the figure granted on the liability order.

 

 

Unfortunately for you, many people miss their last payment, many see this as a last act of defiance. Bailiffs are ready when this happens and don't hang around.

 

 

£40 is way too much for it to be as a result of the 7.5% add on. You need to question whether this £37 should be lawfully collected.

 

 

As they are visiting your mothers house, all she needs do is drop a short line to the bailiffs, informing them that you do not reside there and that she does not want them visiting or harassing her. She should also state clearly that she is refusing permission to enter her home

 

 

Lets see them touch her stuff then.

 

Words like that wont work. The bailiff would want to see proof by way of a statutory declaration, and that declaration MUST be truthful and factual, otherwise the mother would end up in serious trouble.

[Tuco]

The bailiff can ask for what he likes

 

 

The homeowner/tenant is under no obligation to provide it.

 

 

He may enter a home peaceably, with the occupiers permission-Once permission is declined, he is under a duty to abide by that decision, just like you or I would be

 

 

The Mother would not be in any trouble whatsoever, let alone serious trouble-I repeat, we are living in the UK, not North Korea.

[Leakie]

The biggest problem is it is down to the EA's discretion,

As most realise the EA's is only interested in one thing ,

and do not care who pays as long as it is paid,

 

Very little come back if they are wrong.

If they were penalise for this then may be they would act in a proper manner.

[Tuco]

The biggest problem is it is down to the EA's discretion,

As most realise the EA's is only interested in one thing ,

and do not care who pays as long as it is paid,

 

Very little come back if they are wrong.

If they were penalise for this then may be they would act in a proper manner.

 

 

There is no problem

 

 

The EA has no discretion. It has been placed in writing that he may not enter the property. It doesn't even matter if the son is inside, swigging a bottle of whiskey & smoking a big fat spliff.

 

 

People are getting a tad confused here between council tax enforcement and fines enforcement.

 

 

For fines, a bailiff may force entry-For council tax, he needs to be invited in or imply right of entry through an unlocked door. A householder may refuse this-Again people are getting confused, it doesn't have to be a verbal refusal, a written refusal works just the same-Better in fact because a copy can be sent to the creditor and there can be no doubts, further on down the line.

[Peterbard]

I must I suppose correct some points raised.

 

The EA does not require an "implied right" to enter, his right is now under the schedule 12 procedure in section 14.(statute)

 

A letter sent to the EA will have no effect as per above.He does need to enter peaceably on a council tax enforcment, however he does not require the permission of the debtor, see above, he can enter under the usual method.

 

A letter sent to remove implied rights will not work as above.

 

The debtor need not engage with the bailiff, but the debt due will not disappear if he does not.

 

Not withstanding the above.

 

The bailiff does indeed have discretion about enforcing he can chose not to continue, if he is convinced that the debtor is a third party , vulnerable etc.

[Tuco]

Nobody is suggesting a letter to remove implied right of access. We are talking about implied right of entry.

 

The two are completely separate issues. A bailiff implies a right to enter if he discovers an unlocked door. Informing him in writing that his permission to enter is denied will stop him in his tracks- especially if the householder is not the debtor.

 

Have a look at the thread by BMW boy. B&S claim that although they have been unsuccessful in gaining entry, they will "endeavour " to continue to try. A letter in writing confirming that permission is refused would have killed off any attempt.

 

There are actually several letters in place currently that have stopped subsequent visits. There is of course discretion to visit but once the £235 fee has been triggered, the will to do so evaporates. Especially as there is 0% chance of goods being seized as entry to the premises is not possible.

 

Please refrain from "correcting me with nothing but your own opinions. If you have evidence then let's see it. I of course do have evidence that this type of letter succeeds

[Peterbard]

I mentioned section 14 of schedule 12, hardly my opinion ??

 

So ther is another implied right, first i have heard of it ? Sure you have not just invented one when your previous argument failed.

 

The permissions regarding entry are all in the TCE mark no need for opinion.

 

I am also aware of our hundreds of letters to various authorities and that all that have been answered say that what you say is nonsense.

[Peterbard]

This really is an old FMoTL hobby horse. really not that complicated. Bailiffs enforcing council tax have a right in law to attend to search for goods and take them under control, however they do not have the right to force entry. Schedule 14 .

There is no implied right here ir is all clear and prescribed by the statute.

 

You may tell the bailiff that you are not going to let him in and you are not going to talk to him and HE may decide it is not worth the effort of attending again section 14,

 

You have not compelled him to do anything. He may decide to visit anyway. This is not opinion, common sense and the contents of the act, more like.

[Tuco]

"Another implied right "???

 

You Can imply a right to almost anything.

 

Does a bailiff need permission to enter?

Can a debtor refuse permission?

Is a letter in writing sufficient refusal?

 

Three simple and reasonable questions. Not sure quite how you connect it to fmotl?

 

If you answered no to any of those quet, you might as well give up now. It really is basic and straightforward. I fail to see any need to complicate things

[Bailiff Advice]

They initially charged the whole year but the house was only occupied about 9 months so it went down to ~£880.

 

I believe so, this month should have been the final £200 to pay everything off.

 

It just said costs. This is the first visit, although initial letter was in December, to my old address.

 

What what you have said it would seem that the local authority adjusted the Liability Order downwards when notified of the occupation period. You need to check about the additional adjustment of £37 as this is rather odd.

 

With regards to the remaining debt (which should be £310). As long as your mother does not allow the agent into the property, and the agent is unable to take control of a motor vehicle belonging to you then the fees will not increase.

 

I would therefore suggest that you send a text message to the enforcement agent to reiterate that you are not refusing to pay the amount and intend to make payment in three weeks when you get paid.

 

If the enforcement agent refuses your proposal, it may be a good idea to state something along the following lines:

 

"If it is your intention to refuse the above payment proposal, then I will be left with little option other than to make the payment (of £310) direct to the local authority".