The European Union.....In or Out?

[Conniff]

For clarity

I did not mention the American people, I said the American state. Huge difference

 

But a country or state is not a country or state without the people, so what is the difference ?

 

Arriva and cross country are German, elf is French, need I go on

 

That's called enterprise.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Conniff

[tobyjugg2]

That’s me I’ll be voting to stay in after all, how can I not,

after all how can I possible argue against the likes of

Gordon Brown, Tony Blair, Ed Miliband and Neil Kinnock,

all leading pillars of society, who say we should stay.

 

Gordon Brown:- sold our gold at such a low price he may

has well given it away. He was rubbish as PM.

Tony Blair:- took us into an illegal war, at a cost of hundreds

of lives and lied to the country to do so. Wanted to be

President of the EU. Now makes his money both him and his

misses from talking to dictators war mongers and murders.

Ed Miliband:- what can I say about him, as wet as

2 damp rags, could anybody really take him seriously, a right

plonker put his manifesto on a great big tomb stone, ever

seen him eat a bacon sandwich.

 

Last but not least we have.

Neil Kinnock:- the Welsh windbag, EU commissioner, did not

last long though sacked his head of auditing because she would

not sign off EU accounts because of corruption of funds. He wants

to stay in of course, he gets a pension from the EU, why would he

want to leave, even managed to get his wife elected as an MEP.

 

Says it all really. Na! think I’ll change my mind and still vote to leave.

 

 

You missed a few

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016#Business_leaders

 

which includes

"Within the Conservative Party (which is officially neutral), 25 of the 30 Cabinet Ministers including the Prime Minister"

 

 

 

overall

"The majority of the Conservative Party's 330 MPs have announced that they will campaign for Britain to remain in the European Union."1

 

"Others include former Prime Minister John Major,[68] former party leader William Hague,[69] former Deputy Prime Minister Michael Heseltine,[70] David Willetts,[71] former Chancellor of the Exchequer Ken Clarke,[72] and former minister Edwina Currie.[73]"

 

 

and thats just out and out tory politicians - the list goes on and on and on

[unclebulgaria67]

After this referendum, Cameron he is going to find a lot of enemies in his party that really don't like the way he has campaigned for remain and i predict that UKIP might well receive extra support from Tories who move their allegiance. Cameron might loose his majority, with some Tory MP's joining UKIP.

 

This referendum could well make splits in the Tory party permanent and also split the vote in the country with UKIP gaining. SNP lost the independence referendum, but then gained massively at the 2015 election. The same could happen with Cameron winning the referendum vote, but then losing support for his party.

 

Labour really need to sort themselves out, as the next election could be in 2017 or 18, if a vote of non confidence gets passed in parliament. At the moment, Corbyn is unlikely to appeal to many voters in English seats outside of Labour strongholds.

[Conniff]

Cathy Warwick Royal College of Midwives

Leaving is much better for the NHS

 

Sir Richard Branson

Leaving the EU would be very, very advantageous for Great Britain

 

Anders Rasmussen Former Nato Secretary General

If the UK were to leave the European Union, the voice of the UK would be strengthened

 

Martin Lewis

On balance of probability it is more likely we'll have more money in our pockets if we vote to leave

 

Karren Brady

UK businesses can create less jobs in the EU than out on their own

[fletch70]

And all that since we have been a member of the EU, cant really see that it can be any worse if we pull out.

 

No that has all happened since the Conservatives came to power and decided on austerity and everyone admits there will have to be a lot more of the same if we leave

[fletch70]

Cathy Warwick Royal College of Midwives

Leaving is much better for the NHS

 

Sir Richard Branson

Leaving the EU would be very, very advantageous for Great Britain

 

Anders Rasmussen Former Nato Secretary General

If the UK were to leave the European Union, the voice of the UK would be strengthened

 

Martin Lewis

On balance of probability it is more likely we'll have more money in our pockets if we vote to leave

 

Karren Brady

UK businesses can create less jobs in the EU than out on their own

 

Conniff

Complete misinformation and lies , these are not real quotes. Are you a politician?

 

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/05/20/quote-misquotes-and-the-truth-about-my-appearance-in-the-stronger-in-europe-leaflet/

 

Ok so maybe Martin Lewis wasn't happy about being quoted but he said on balance more money in our pockets if we stay in.

Karren Brady is pro Europe

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/sir-richard-branson-warns-leaving-eu-would-be-very-damaging-for-britain-a6883561.html

 

I know , maybe you were taking the P but please be factual

[fletch70]

After this referendum, Cameron he is going to find a lot of enemies in his party that really don't like the way he has campaigned for remain and i predict that UKIP might well receive extra support from Tories who move their allegiance. Cameron might loose his majority, with some Tory MP's joining UKIP.

 

This referendum could well make splits in the Tory party permanent and also split the vote in the country with UKIP gaining. SNP lost the independence referendum, but then gained massively at the 2015 election. The same could happen with Cameron winning the referendum vote, but then losing support for his party.

 

Labour really need to sort themselves out, as the next election could be in 2017 or 18, if a vote of non confidence gets passed in parliament. At the moment, Corbyn is unlikely to appeal to many voters in English seats outside of Labour strongholds.

 

I sort of agree with you , Corbyn is a bit of a Marmite man . I believe he has integrity and believes what he is saying and there is some evidence that he is appealing to the young. He may also appeal to Scots who are generally more left wing than the English.

 

I can't however see there being a vote of no confidence in the government , there may be a change of PM but the party are , I think unlikely to vote for a general election. I can only recall one vote of no confidence that brought down the government and that was in 1979. There will not be many people alive who remember the previous one in 1924.

 

Also even if there is a vote of o confidence in the government, they have 14 days to win a second vote , so yes maybe there will be one , Camoron resigns and then they win the new vote - Politicians wouldn't trust em as far as I could chuck em.

[tobyjugg2]

Conniff

Complete misinformation and lies , these are not real quotes. Are you a politician?

 

http://blog.moneysavingexpert.com/2016/05/20/quote-misquotes-and-the-truth-about-my-appearance-in-the-stronger-in-europe-leaflet/

 

Ok so maybe Martin Lewis wasn't happy about being quoted but he said on balance more money in our pockets if we stay in.

Karren Brady is pro Europe

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/sir-richard-branson-warns-leaving-eu-would-be-very-damaging-for-britain-a6883561.html

 

I know , maybe you were taking the P but please be factual

 

Not a chance, Conniff demonstrates again and again that he blatantly lies and is a disgrace to a factual consumer forum.

 

I dont doubt at all this is no simple prank, however stupid and deceitful, as he never retracts his lies.

 

Sadly this does seem to be the satndard for Brexit supporters

 

 

SIR Richard Branson ACTUALLY says:

Richard Branson says Brexit would be 'worst decision Britain could ever make'

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/richard-branson-says-brexit-would-be-worst-decision-britain-could-ever-make-1550368

 

Here again is the list of some of the senior business leaders, organisations, politicians, NHS management and major businesses that believe REMAIN is the way for the UK

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Endorsements_in_the_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum,_2016#Business_leaders

 

 

How about Brexit supporters doing the same?

 

 

 

 

In a letter published in The Times a wide range of business leaders, including 36 FTSE 100 companies, called for a vote to stay in the European Union. The letter states that British "business needs unrestricted access to the European market of 500 million people in order to continue to grow, invest, and create jobs. We believe that leaving the EU would deter investment, threaten jobs, and put the economy at risk. Britain will be stronger, safer, and better off remaining a member of the EU

[fletch70]

Toby

The problem is that both sides spin and only tell us hat they want us to know, we all do it as my mother pointed out to me the other day when she said "you only tell me what you want me to know" how very true.

 

I have not though seen such easily disproved lies except perhaps the claim it costs 350m a day.

 

Great line from Farage today, if we stay in the Euro women will be sexually assaulted by Eastern European and North African men. Now I call that a racist comment with no evidence . Let's face it there are enough British rapists and child molesters so the phrase glasshouses springs to mind

[tobyjugg2]

Toby

The problem is that both sides spin and only tell us hat they want us to know, we all do it as my mother pointed out to me the other day when she said "you only tell me what you want me to know" how very true.

 

I have not though seen such easily disproved lies except perhaps the claim it costs 350m a day.

 

Great line from Farage today, if we stay in the Euro women will be sexually assaulted by Eastern European and North African men. Now I call that a racist comment with no evidence . Let's face it there are enough British rapists and child molesters so the phrase glasshouses springs to mind

 

 

Agree fully, but I stand by what I said in the particular case. There are interpretations twisted as only directed misinterpretations can be - and there are outright lies.

 

Wonder what the various people would think to such blatant lies about their intent and beliefs, particularly when they are (like Branson) so clear in their opinion?

 

Farage has since that rather stupid comment dropped quite significantly in my opinion of him, which wasn't ever great, but I did always consider him to raise good and valid points.

Almost down to Cameron level now, but still nowhere near the depths Boris, Gove, IDS, or even Corbyn plumb.

[san_d]

The CAG team needs to sort themselves out. They are free to make inflammatory comments but our posts are being censored. Double standards?

[tobyjugg2]

The CAG team needs to sort themselves out. They are free to make inflammatory comments but our posts are being censored. Double standards?

 

yep

moderation is a difficult task, but when one of those who should be moderating is the major problem, it detracts from the whole site even if most are honest and fair.

 

Still - it is their site.

[fletch70]

Silver fox gave an adequate explanation yesterday.

TBH I think crass comments by anyone show the user up for what they are.

[tobyjugg2]

Silver fox gave an adequate explanation yesterday.

TBH I think crass comments by anyone show the user up for what they are.

 

I agree that would be a very valid response if consistent.

 

and provided someone didnt blatantly misrepresent others positions putting the site in an awkward position

[Guest]

Listening to David Mellor on LBC this morning and he thinks that if the country votes for Brexit, that there will be a renegotiation between UK and EU to try to keep the UK within the EU

thats an interesting point. some say out to be in, but with reform.

it seems that it does need reform, wld britain be better in trying to get the required reform. or out and not having a say, but still required to be eu compliant whatever goes?

[tobyjugg2]

thats an interesting point. some say out to be in, but with reform.

it seems that it does need reform, wld britain be better in trying to get the required reform. or out and not having a say, but still required to be eu compliant whatever goes?

 

 

I saw an interesting set of part interviews on Brexit on what I believe was something like a CNN best of quest compilation - I was busy

Might see if i can find out what they were.

[unclebulgaria67]

Remember that the boundary changes are due in 2018, with equalisation of constituencies to circa 100k voters and reduction in MP's to 600 to be legislated in 2019.. Following this EU campaign infighting within the Tory party, there will be dozens of MP's threatened with losing their seats and the Tories only have a majority of 12. There are apparently about 50 Tory MP's who are extremely unhappy with Cameron and Osborne, who are likely to trigger a leadership contest. Some might jump ship to UKIP. Don't you think that some some MP's might fancy an early general election, before these consituency changes are made.

 

If Brexit wins, Cameron will be gone and Boris Johnson will fight it out with Theresa May to be leader/PM. The Tory party will be in a right mess and finding it very difficult to govern, while trying to negotiate with the EU, while also negotiating trade deals with a large number of countries. Don't rule out a vote of no confidence forcing an early election.

[Conniff]

No early election, terms are now for a fixed period of five years.

 

No lies, they can't prove what they said so they can't complain that I have reversed what they said.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Conniff

[unclebulgaria67]

No early election, terms are now for a fixed period of five years.

 

If the government loses a vote of no confidence there can be an early election. But as someone said, it is not that straightforward, as there are various hurdles to cross.

 

http://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/11067/the-not-so-fixed-term-parliaments-act/

[fletch70]

No early election, terms are now for a fixed period of five years.

 

No lies, they can't prove what they said so they can't complain that I have reversed what they said.

 

Oh such a shame, we have demonstrated that you are wrong both in what you claim they said and also in how our democracy (haha) works.

 

What you claim they have said is not right and we have seen straight through it. Actually if you read the link I posted one is from Lewis himself. What level of proof do you want

Edited June 5, 2016 by honeybee13
Pejorative words removed.

[Conniff]

Oh such a shame, we have demonstrated that you are wrong both in what you claim they said and also in how our democracy (haha) works.

 

What you claim they have said is a big fat lie and we have seen right through it. Actually if you read the link I posted one is from Lewis himself. What level of proof do you want

 

I want proof that what they claim is true. They haven't proved a thing and neither have any of you Corbyn lovers on here either.

[buckthorn]

Buckthorn

 

 

 

If you don't believe me think of this

For the last 5 years I have regularly walked through Birmingham city centre in the early morning and now see more and more homeless people. 5 years ago it was the odd one, now I see a minimum of 10-15 every day and that included the winter. That is a five minute walk from the bus to the station so not exactly a comprehensive survey

 

Look at the waiting list for social housing, the stock was sold off in the 80's onwards and has never been replaced.

 

 

My post no; 792

The European union.

Now for the real facts if we leave:-

I really don't know how you equate housing etc;

with my post as housing is the province of the government not the EU.

[Conniff]

Mortgages 'will' drop by £1,000 pa if we leave.

 

If they can claim they will rise on exit and without any substance to their claims, then I can claim the opposite and not have to justify that claim either.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Conniff

[Guest]

conniff

there is no substantive 'proof' from the leave campaign, in re of anything they put forward. its all supposition. which is fair enough, but it cannot be said that xyz will happen. come on, do you really believe that the so called 100m/ week extra will be spent on the nhs. unlikely.

the govt is currently trying to scrap nursing grants. maybe that 'saving' will be spent on a pedestrian garden bridge across the thames

boris cldnt 'guarantee' that there wld be subsidies for the farming industry, without which there prob wldnt be such an industry. unless we relied on china

[Conniff]

conniff

there is no substantive 'proof' from the leave campaign, in re of anything they put forward. its all supposition. which is fair enough, but it cannot be said that xyz will happen. come on, do you really believe that the so called 100m/ week extra will be spent on the nhs. unlikely.

the govt is currently trying to scrap nursing grants. maybe that 'saving' will be spent on a pedestrian garden bridge across the thames

boris cldnt 'guarantee' that there wld be subsidies for the farming industry, without which there prob wldnt be such an industry. unless we relied on china

 

There is no substantive proof of anything said by anyone, no one has ever said that our funds dished out by the eu will end either. The only thing we do all know for certain is that the country will be £millions in profit when we leave.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Conniff