CPP (Car Parking Parnership) Thrid Party Hospital Civil Parking Notice

[Myarseitis]

Good afternoon Everybody,

 

I've been reading some of the very helpful replies to posts but unfortunately acted before reading:| Not a great start/ idea:madgrin: as Ive just identified myself for liability purposes. Please could some one tell me if this method is still the best/ current way and if I have got a correct understanding of the process so far:?: I did not realise you should wait between 28-56 days for NTK and this would cost them:oops: waiting for the POPLA code which is run by BPA. Appealing to who ?????? with the POPLA code number. Are we talking about appealing direct to CPP or Parking On Private Land Appeals with the POPLA code:?: Please Clarify:???:

I received a parking ticket stuck on my windscreen in the first week of October 2015 asking for £100.00 if paid withing 14 days £40.00 from Liberty Printers AR and RF Reddin trading as CPP (Car Parking Parnership) a third party parking provider for a local UK hospital and used this template letter below replying in the same week. I have used before in a similar situation for an Asda car park which proved extremely successful. If memory serves me right I believe I obtained the from either Get out of Debt Free or The Consumer Action Group forums. Many Thanks for whoever posted it in the first place:-)

Unfortunately I mistakenly typed in the wrong notice number in error :-xCPP have sent me a letter back in the second week of October 2015 and rightly so have said in their reply that they are unable to locate the parking charge with the information I provided to them. They have requested for me to confirm the reference number and are asking for my vehicle registration number. Of course they have my address from the letter below and I have no problem with giving them the correct notice number but am unsure about giving my vehicle reg as I thought I maybe giving them more than what's needed?

In addition they enclosed an standard letter please see attached stating about contract with driver, enforceability of the charge and rejection of invalid invoice. Quoting previous court cases of prosecution as these quoted legislations were not applicable on private land. I believe some sort of scare tactic to make you think you stood no chance and to frightening you in to paying them. I hope their attachments can be read to shed some light on their bullyboy claims and does anyone please have a more effective up to date letter that I can fire off for my second letter. Or do I continue to play ball this time round extending on my first letter with the right notice number. Did try to upload their standard letter but because I am Newbe:!: without 10 post under my belt I am unable to upload images or include any links.

 

My Letter Sent:!:in week one of October 2015

 

Car Parking Partnership (CPP)

PO Box 635,

Chorley,

PR6 6NJ

Re: Notice Number XXXXXXXXXXX

To whom it may concern,

 

Firstly your so called notice is nothing but an attempt to frighten people into paying your invalid charges. The so called notice is not legally binding as no contract agreed or implied has been entered into.

 

The Unfair Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations 1999

 

5 (1) A contractual term which has not been individually negotiated shall be regarded as unfair if, contrary to the requirement of good faith, it causes a significant imbalance in the parties' rights and obligations arising under the contract, to the detriment of the consumer.

 

I would like to draw your attention to the following article and believe that as your company is a private company and is not associated with either the local council or police authority, your charge is invalid. (There was a hyperlink included to an appeal now .com)

I have not and will never enter in to any contract agreed or implied with your company nor have I broken any law or statute. I have returned your notice clearly marked "No Contract Return To Sender" as I have no wish to enter into contract with your company.

 

Further action on my part will incur charges which will be chargeable to your company.

 

My charges will be invoiced at the following rates...

 

Initial Charge of £250 then £150 each time I have to respond in relation to this matter. All legal expenses and costs will be charged in addition to the above charges. Pursuing this matter will trigger these charges and by doing so, your company agrees to these terms.

 

I look forward to your response within 7 days.

Regards

 

 

[armadillo71]

We'll get back to you when we have understood what you have written...

[silverfox1961]

Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

Your error was making contact with them in the first place. As for your letter. where did you get that from? I can assure you it wasn't here.

 

If you were to take court action for your time spent on this matter with the rates you have stated, you will get laughed out of court so forget it. CPP will never agree to that as they haven't individually negotiated the terms with you, the same terms you state you didn't agree to.

When you go into a shop, you have entered an agreement to shop there and not steal anything. This is implied and by going into the store, you have agreed to do that. The same principle applies when you park in a managed car park.

 

What they cannot do is make up a figure and state as such as a breach of contract.

 

Having said all that, based on some minor research done, CPP have taken no court action this year so basically ignore anything further.

[Myarseitis]

Good evening Silverfox,

 

Thank you for your rapid response and guidance:wink:

 

Like I said I am unsure of where I obtained it and Ive only ever used a few websites/ forums. It worked for me once with Asda a few years ago.

Therefore I had now reason to believe it wouldn't work again!

 

Many thanks for your advise of ignoring anything further.

[Myarseitis]

Thanks You:whoo:

We'll get back to you when we have understood what you have written...

[armadillo71]

Which hospital was this please?

 

 

For information purposes, Craptia are the owners of LIBERTY PRINTERS (AR AND RF REDDIN) LIMITED

 

Company number*02920033

 

https://beta.companieshouse.gov.uk/company/02920033/officers

[ericsbrother]

Please tell us wheer you got the information from that you used to compose your response as it is wrong in law and is essentially utter twaddle when it comes to imposing your demands upon the parking co. this has been proven in court so trying to follow up on the threats made in this letter will leave you with a large hole in your wallet.

As siad above, as you have written to them they now know that you are the driver and the keeper of the vehicle and you have made it easier for them to identify the debtor and the provisions of the PoFA largely no longer apply.

All you can do now is to wait and see what they do and then respond to that and hopefully make a better impression on the independent adjudicator. As CPP arent on the BPA Opproved operators list i presume they are members of the IPC and in that case you are unlikely to get a successful outcome there but at least you will have had a chance at correcting the errors of your first letter.

When you do get a response come back here and we will advise but in the meanwhile tell us exactly what the signage at the hospital says, how big the signs are and what it says on the ticket you got.

[Myarseitis]

Hi Ericsbrother,

The letter template we have already established I cannot really remember and does it really matter. What's done is what's done I cannot change the past but only my future. Your right I did write to them but I was not the driver on that day and their contract is with the driver isn't it, well I thought it was in their implied contract.

 

You make an interesting point within your reply about the provisions of the PoFA being no longer apply is this because I acted without brushing up on the new methods of dealing with this?

 

I would like a chance at correcting my error of sending the first letter therefore I will get photo's of what the signage says height's and position. As I would love to hear advise of what it actually is it you believe I should be responding with to the independent adjudicator. As for the ticket I can scan this taking out all my personal information but unsure if I would be able to upload. E.G does this website have any restrictions from new account holders uploading images or adding hyperlinks to their post?

 

I don't know if this makes a difference or helps in anyway but you mention CPP aren't on the BPA Opproved operators yet they quite clearly state/ advertise their badge this on their website:

The Car Parking Partnership is a trading name of Liberty Printers (AR and RF Reddin) Limited a company registered in England with company registered number 02920033. Registered office: 17 ROCHESTER ROW, LONDON, SW1P 1QT. Car Parking Partnership is a member of the British Parking Association and follows their code of practice. The CPP Printing and Permit Management Systems have been developed by the Liberty Services Group who are an ISO 9001, ISO 14001, ISO 27001 and Carbon Smart accredited company, all data and processes are managed in accordance with these accreditations

Many thanks again for your time Ericsbrother

[Myarseitis]

Which hospital was this please? Without the intention of coursing any offence these website advise giving minimal details. I'd rather not say because this is an open source website, any of the companies could and probably are posing as users intercepting advise to try and counter attack. Therefore I wouldn't really want to stack the deck in their favour.

 

For information purposes, Craptia are the owners of LIBERTY PRINTERS (AR AND RF REDDIN) LIMITED Extremely interesting are we talking about the Capita PLC the largest business process outsourcing and professional services company in the UK?

Company number*02920033

 

 

 

 

Many Thanks

[armadillo71]

Which hospital was this please? Without the intention of coursing any offence these website advise giving minimal details. I'd rather not say because this is an open source website, any of the companies could and probably are posing as users intercepting advise to try and counter attack. Therefore I wouldn't really want to stack the deck in their favour.

 

For information purposes, Craptia are the owners of LIBERTY PRINTERS (AR AND RF REDDIN) LIMITED Extremely interesting are we talking about the Capita PLC the largest business process outsourcing and professional services company in the UK?

Company number*02920033

 

 

 

 

Many Thanks

 

You appealed a NTD, thefore you are regarded rightly as the driver. Unless you specifically stated you were not... but you didn't.

 

You say in your first post , ' I received ' and ' my car '. You have already, in your words, stacked the deck in their favour because the POFA is now irrelevant.

 

Search for the hospital trusts policy on parking. Normally they word it totally wrong and it can be used against them.

[ericsbrother]

Capita own the company that make the tickets and ticketing equipment, they are not involved in the issue of the tickets at this site. They do own PE though so they have more than one finger in the private parking pie.

Well, seeing the signs will tell us the nature of the contract offered and we can then advise on whether their claim is based on breach of contract, a contractual obligation or trespass. All 3 have different remedies in law and the notice to keeper must make clear why the (supposed) debt exists and other details about the time, place etc. The parking co's often get this wrong. In the past it has not always been necessary to pick through the signs and contracts becuse the burden of proof for a loss being caused by the action of the driver/keeper has been impossible for the parking co's to prove. However the BEAVIS case has lumped unilateral consumer contracts into the same category as commercial contracts with penalty clauses so we have to look for other areas until an absolute determination is published on penalty charges.

[DragonFly1967]

ericsbrother, CPP are BPA members. Liberty Printers T/A (so this will be a POPLA job)

[Myarseitis]

Good evening Armadillo, Ericsbrother, Silverfox & Others

 

Firstly my apologies for the MIA my wife's due in for Major surgery this week and what with preparations/ kids things have been a bit manic to say the least.

 

Are we not missing something hear there was a mention of NTD but ironically by way of my own failure of not getting their notice number right in my letter. All they have from my first letter is a person/me with a name and address with absolutely nothing else to connect the vehicle or ticket together.

 

Therefore in essence if I do not write to them with a second letter giving them the correct notice number!

 

Do I still qualify under one of the 3 remedy's or POPLA?

 

Also do you require a scanned copy of the notice with personal details removed or are the pictures of the signage adequate?

 

Many thanks in advance.

[ericsbrother]

force maejeure, what with the out of order on the meter. They will argue you should have phoned them and paid by debut card or the like but it doesnt say that on the sign.

The wording in your last post does not make any sense, have you received the notices from the company and in the right order? 1/ notice to driver (on car) followed by 2/ notice to keeper at least 29 days later. If the company uses ANPR then you shopuld get a NTK no later than 14 days after the event with some evidence of the event that caused them to write.

What have you received and on what dates.

[Myarseitis]

Good afternoon ALL,

 

My apologies for the MIA the wife's had a kidney removal, been looking after the kids and we've had an emergency water utilities company blowing up our water softener. Rendering all our appliances redundant waiting for appropriate machine manufactures inspection. Left in limbo without washing machine, dishwasher and to add insult to injury bathing facilities have been out of action running around relatives to have showers before school runs dropping off washing. “Thank Goodness for Understanding Caring Family”

 

Ericsbrother I should have made it clear in my last post that since the NTD and going back to take photos of the signage the car park went under construction hence the out of order bag sign. Also to answer your question yes I believe they have been sent in the right order. NTD first and then around 40 plus days later today I received NTK please see attached document.

 

Please could you inform me of my options and the best way forward:?:

 

Kindest regards,

[ericsbrother]

did you photograph the out of order sign? parking companies are notorious liars so a picture of ther meter with out of order on it would persuade the independent adjudicator that other matters that were subject to disagreement would be treated in a similar manner.

[ericsbrother]

so, you appeal to the parking co and say that the meter was out of order so you could not pay. this renders the other terms invalid.

Then see what they say and if they dont cancel you should be given details of how to appeal to POPLA

[Myarseitis]

Hey Ericsbrother,

 

Yes I did take the photographs

 

Some Cropping & Chopping:lol:

 

Good To GO:madgrin:

 

Many Thanks:wink: