US mass shooting

[unclebulgaria67]

Another mass shooting today in the US, this time Oregan. 15 feared dead.

 

And the majority apparently still don't want gun control, as it means changing the Constituition. These events appear to happen every month. Everyday there are gun killings across the US and they don't get reported in the media here, unless more than a few are klled.

 

If you visit BBC i player there is a good documentary by Reggie Yeats visitng Ferguson, talking to many different people about the shooting of a black youth by a white Police officer and the subsequent troubled. When Reggie was interviewing the people, most had loaded guns on them, tucked into trousers or in handbags, Alarming !

[citizenB]

It happens so regularly in the USA, that it isn't really "breaking" news any more is it

[think about it]

Sadly it's what happens when people think they need an automatic assault rifle for 'protection' from a tyrannical government... Who are they going to shoot?

 

Oh wait, they go hunting with it... If you've ever had the displeasure of seeing what an automatic weapon does to 'meat' then you certainly wouldn't use it for hunting for food. It's beyond sad and the only person over there speaking any sense on the matter is Obama. You can see the look of astonishment in his eyes as he has to stand up again and again to repeat himself.

[unclebulgaria67]

Sadly it's what happens when people think they need an automatic assault rifle for 'protection' from a tyrannical government... Who are they going to shoot?

 

Oh wait, they go hunting with it... If you've ever had the displeasure of seeing what an automatic weapon does to 'meat' then you certainly wouldn't use it for hunting for food. It's beyond sad and the only person over there speaking any sense on the matter is Obama. You can see the look of astonishment in his eyes as he has to stand up again and again to repeat himself.

 

Problem is that Americans have grown up with guns and see it as their right to defend themselves. Trouble is that most will not have gone through any training and assessment, so a gun may not be of any use and is more likely to cause them more danger. The criminals and gangs are more likely to be proficient using guns than most of the ordinary people they might attack. Therefore having a gun may mean they are more likely to be killed.

 

Gun control will never happen across the whole of the US, but different states may increase controls. You certainly should not be able to walk around with guns in public, even if they are concealed.

[SabreSheep]

Unfortunately the US public seem to be becoming desensitized to the issue

[citizenB]

There is far too much money invested in weaponry both for personal protection, crime and security in the USA. There is no way the Gun lobby (NRA) is going to cease its lobbying to retain these.

 

http://www.economist.com/news/united-states/21647627-prevent-gun-deaths-politicians-offermore-guns-why-gun-lobby-winning

 

 

 

WHEN a young man walked into an elementary school in Newtown, Connecticut in December 2012 and murdered 20 small children and six staff with a Bushmaster rifle from his mother’s gun collection, some wondered if a tipping-point had been reached. Surely America would now enact laws to keep lethal weapons out of the wrong hands?

 

No chance. Bids to curb sales of the most powerful guns and largest-capacity magazines failed. Congress even refused to expand the number of gun-buyers checked for histories of crime or severe mental illness—though 90% of Americans support such checks. In March this year federal regulators dropped a bid to ban a type of bullet that can pierce body armour, of the sort that police often wear, after 285 Republican and seven Democratic members of Congress objected.

 

 

The gun lobby’s winning record has done little to make its members less angry. The National Rifle Association (NRA), a deep-pocketed group with 5m members, accuses Barack Obama’s administration of a “relentless assault” on the constitutional right of citizens to keep and bear arms. Actual evidence of federal tyranny is a bit meagre—in part because the NRA is so good at whipping Washington politicians into line.

 

[SabreSheep]

US citizens killed by terrorism = less than a 1000

US Citizens killed by US Citizens with firearms = 10,000 +

[unclebulgaria67]

When you can buy guns and ammunition in Walmart, when doing the families weekly shopping, you know supply has gone out of control. They apparently do a few checks on databases and will only provide the gun after a few days if the checks come back clean.

 

I can remember a friend who lived in Los Angeles saying that when he visited to catch up with old friends, he witnessed a gun battle between Police and a local gang. If you travel a few blocks in the wrong direction, you can accidently drive into a gang area. Some of these areas are not policed on a daily basis, but the Police go in heavily armed in numbers if they want to apprehend someone.

[gettingolder]

Some of the States have gun control, these States have the higher proportion of killing by gun. please don't ask me to where I got that stat from, I read it while in the States.

 

 

We have a second home in Texas, so I speak from experience. No we don't have a weapon in the house, both of us know how to use firearms, we are both ex military/ When I lived in Australia I needed to have a Police Shooters License, licensed by the State I lived in. The weapon had to be kept in a locked safe with the bolt and magazine in different places.

 

 

in Texas you are screened, you can buy your gun BUT you have wait the mandatory cooling off period and during this time, police checks are run and you have to apply for your licence. THEN, you have to attend mandatory licensing to legally carry the firearm. If you are going to carry a concealed firearm, you have to have further screening checks done, before you can take delivery of your firearm. If you are found to be carrying an unlicensed weapon, jail time for you without a get out of jail for free card. You do have to keep your weapon in a secure place in your house. yes. you can buy your shells and bullets at Walmart, but you certainly don't do this when you do your weekly shop. There are regulations that the store has to observe. You are not served by a pimply youth either. It is not as easy as the media makes it out to be,

 

 

Personal story...the ladies of a certain church all carry a pistol in their handbags, they are all licensed and have done firearm training. I do not attend church, but can picture them all sitting in the pews. I call them the Pentacostal Pistol Packing Mummas. I asked them why they felt the need to carry a weapon and one replied in broad Texan draw, Sugar, when you are threatened by a stupid boy waving a pistol in your face and he tells you to remove your panties because he is going to rape you, you fumble in your purse making out your getting a hanky to wipe your eyes, and then you show him your gun, he certainly loses interest quickly, because they don't expect you to have a weapon. My brother has a rifle in the cabin of his truck, it is above his head, he has never had a problem, the rifle is visible to everyone. No-one has ever tried to steal the truck or the rifle. Maybe it is a deterrent to some.

 

 

Over here we have a baseball bat kept inside the front door. Living in four different countries, it iis horses for courses

[gettingolder]

An aside, Barack Obama might not need a gun, but he is escorted by those who carry concealed weapons at all times and this will continue for the rest of his and his families lives.

[SabreSheep]

The problem is, mental health problems can strike at any time.

 

 

No good screening if a year down the line the now gun owner goes potty.

 

There is on average 1 gun per US Citizen, how can MORE guns make anyone feel safe?

[gettingolder]

True, but hopefully the license would not be renewed on the Annual renewal. No matter whatever legislation is in place it wont stop those who want a gun for illegal or unlawful purposes. It's not the guns that kill, it's the person who fires it.

[tobyjugg2]

A US friend of mine repeatedly says:

Laws only stop law abiding citizens from having guns.

 

Given that the right to bear arms is not just a right in America, but enshrined in their constitution and is an integral and glorified part of their history, I really cant see it changing any time soon.

 

He tells me that in some states you can just go to a firearms show and buy anything up to fully automatic assault rifles and heavy machine guns with no documentation asked for. 'Cash money is just fine'.

I googled it when he told me that, and quite a few US news services have done articles on just that.

- some pro - some anti - but all confirm it happens.

[SabreSheep]

It amuses me.

 

Guns dont kill people, people kill people.

 

Correct. But it is the biggest strawman argument there is.

 

People kill people.

But to use it as an excuse for gun ownership is also akin to saying.

 

Its ok to give that person the tool to do mass damage, its not the tools fault.

 

Yes people kill people but if you make it harder for them to get the tools of mass carnage it reduces the damage potential.

 

EG Serial killer has the choice of using pistols and sub machine guns and assault rifles or is limited to a knife. Which scenario is going to result in more loss of life?

 

As for the arguments about it being able to prevent a hostile government etc. BS. What it comes down to is Gun owners are afraid of other gun owners.

 

And as always the statistics regarding US casualties in the war against terror including 9-11 VS loss of life to GUN CRIME are ignored.

 

When the toll keeps increasing surely there must come a point where you tell yourselves that "This is just not working"

[unclebulgaria67]

This issue will never be resolved, no matter what happened. They will just have to put up with the number of deaths and keep blaming the killers using guns.

 

I just wonder what happens in households where the person buying guns passes all tests required, but they have a family member living with them that has mental health issues. Do the licencing authorities check all people living at the addess where the licence is required ?

[gettingolder]

It wont be resolved. Sadly the checks are only for the person who has the license. That person is responsible for the security of the weapon.

 

 

The only reason I had weapon in Australia was because it had been given to me, it was antique and it had not been disarmed. It was a collector's item. I sold it to a collector, but had to supply all the paperwork to the police.

 

 

My sister (in Texas) has home security, she was phoned by a home security salesman and when she stated she had a 357 he replied I think that is security enough Ma'am. She doesn't have a weapon at all.

 

 

If a person is determined enough they will find a way around the law preventing the possession of a weapon.

[obiter dictum]

In 2012 while in Vegas i went to one of those tourist events to a licenced gun range in the desert. It cost me $80.00 all in including a Buffet.

 

I was able to shot anything from a cannon or musket right up to Lars Rocket.

 

The armourer told me these munitions were freely avaliabe to any US citizen of good character.

 

Why anyone would want a weapon that can shoot 700 rounds a minute for home defence is simply not logical, talk about over kill. You would have thought WACO would have been the wake up call.

 

The day out was fun though

[Conniff]

It happens so regularly in the USA, that it isn't really "breaking" news any more is it

 

It's so frequent that it isn't even news let alone breaking, it's starting to become boring, sad but boring.

[tobyjugg2]

I

And as always the statistics regarding US casualties in the war against terror including 9-11 VS loss of life to GUN CRIME are ignored.

 

When the toll keeps increasing surely there must come a point where you tell yourselves that "This is just not working"

 

It doesn't work with a lot of Smokers, and they aren't supported by a US constitution.

 

To add a perspective

.. I wonder how many people have had their health impacted worse than a bullet in the shoulder from an over-abundance of super-size me (or even 'ordinary' cheeseburgers?

 

According to the cdc:

Fully 1/3rd of all premature deaths in the US are diet related.

 

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CCQQFjABahUKEwisnKjH-6PIAhWHlCwKHfZhDq0&url=https%3A%2F%2Fcspinet.org%2Fnew%2Fpdf%2Fcdc_briefing_book_fy10.pdf&usg=AFQjCNGpw40rEvSPDCpX8sa3MfgdjCDrmg

 

 

 

and consider Jamaica, which is apparently far worse per head of population than the US

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/too-many-deaths-in-paradise-jamaica-is-awash-with-police-shootings-and-has-brought-in-a-british-9089068.html