Blatant discrimination by DWP - RENEWED FOR 3 YEARS

[reallymadwoman]

No response to my dowloaded claim form, but I have had a reminder from DWP that the deadline for making my claim is about to speed past. I did get a certificate of posting so I'm fairly confident that at some point someone will decide that my claim was made in time even if they haven't opened the envelope yet.

[Bazooka Boo]

Hmm, if it were me, I'd give them a quick bell and tell them that the letter was sent on dd/mm and pose the question have they not received it?

 

It is more than likely that it's their ZX Spectrum computer just spitting out missives as and when it chooses, but as you know, they do like to play dumb.

[reallymadwoman]

It seems my downloaded form was accepted as I've had the 'how your disability affects you' form and returned it. However, once again I am less than impressed with ATOS. As with the ESA fiasco, it's blindingly obvious (and the person on the phone admitted it) that information on the PIP form, even the bit where they ask you about any restrictions on attending an assessment, isn't even looked at before they send you an appointment. Information on mine included

 

1. It takes several hours at least for me to become mobile in the morning - they booked an appointment for 9 am.

2. I can't use public transport and I don't drive - the appointment is in a town 40 miles away and would involve 3 buses and a train to get there, taking approximately 2 hours. Though one of the buses doesn't run at that time in the morning, so it would actually involve a 20 minute walk instead, up a very steep hill which my son struggles to get me up so no chance of doing it myself.

3. And the killer, the building is not wheelchair accessible and I'm in a wheelchair.

 

If I'd even been prepared to try it, to make their appointment I'd have had to get up at 3 am and leave the house at 6.45 am. If there were no travel delays and assuming that they wouldn't be running late at that time in the morning, I'd probably have got home about 12.30 pm, having been out of the house for nearly 6 hours. I'd guess it would have taken at least a week to recover from that and I think there's a 50/50 chance it would have put me in hospital simply because the stress on top of the pain would have pushed my already unstable blood pressure too high.

 

When I mentioned the wheelchair and no car I was offered an alternative assessment centre, and I quote 'In somewhere called xxxx' which just happens to be about 10 minutes away by taxi, but unfortunately is again not wheelchair accessible. Apparently you're offered the first available appointment within what they consider is 90 minutes travelling time and only if you query it will they find somewhere closer.

 

They've now taken my GPs name and number to check if I qualify for a home visit, despite the fact that they won't let me in to any of their assessment centres. I'm getting a distinct sense of deja vue http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?337937-IB-to-ESA-migration

[Nystagmite]

That's just ridiculous! So, if you turn up, they'll decide that you're probably not that disabled to qualify for PIP.

[citizenB]

Couldn't make it up, could you ?

[reallymadwoman]

My fingers are absolutely itching to type the letter of complaint not only about ignoring information which they asked for but also about the clear breaches of the DWP guidance which quite clearly states that where a form indicates a high level of disability which is consistent with other evidence and the condition(s) suffered from and/or the claimant is vulnerable (I meet both conditions) they should only undertake a face to face assessment if they can't get the evidence they need any other way. I saw my GP yesterday so I know they've not contacted her and I very much doubt they've contacted any of the 12 consultants I listed either.

 

However, hubby thinks I should wait and see what happens next as there's at least a chance that a) they won't bother contacting my GP and will just do a home visit or b) (infinitely preferable and bearing in mind ATOS' efforts to avoid home visits) someone with some sense will now actually look at all the evidence and decide I don't need an assessment at all. On the most conservative count I scored 16 points for daily living and 20 for mobility, but perhaps they think people choose to use wheelchairs etc because they're lazy rather than because it's the only way they can get around. And actually, if they'd ever tried to use a manual wheelchair, they'd know it would be easier to walk!

 

Just done a journey plan on traveline and they've also messed that up because the MINIMUM journey time given is 1:51, well over the 90 minutes maximum.

[Bazooka Boo]

Start compiling your complaint against them now, and always always ensure your MP gets a copy of it, this is truly barbaric treatment, and is akin to North Korea rather than a supposed educated western country.

[reallymadwoman]

Start compiling your complaint against them now, and always always ensure your MP gets a copy of it, this is truly barbaric treatment, and is akin to North Korea rather than a supposed educated western country.

 

That's how I've got through today. It is a feature of my condition that I'm like a dog with a bone if something gets to me - I simply can't let it go to the point where I still ruminate over things that happened 30 years ago - but writing the complaint does at least partly get it out of my system even if it means I've wasted a whole day on something that may not ever be sent.

 

I have actually done nothing but obsess over this all day, this is what they did to me last time as well and it is barbaric. I know it's sheer incompetence, but it's tempting to see it as a test - if I'd got there I'd have effectively proved that I was lying on the questionnaire because of course they'd have never asked any questions about what time I'd had to get up or how much the taxi had cost.

 

Having looked a bit further at the Traveline suggestion, it's a 34 minute walk from the nearest public transport at the other end to, and I'd suggest even someone of my age without a disability would think twice about that, especially at that time in the morning in the winter. Actually, I hadn't thought of that one. I suffer really badly from Raynaud's so going out at that time isn't something I would usually even consider. There's a limit to how much padding you can wear on your hands and still be able to push the chair.

[tommy456]

Fingers crossed that something starts to go right for you because I can only share in what this nightmare of changes does to you.

 

I do believe they are deliberately attempting to make it so tough for those who find it hardest to cope that they hope they just go into a decline and disappear.

 

Take the comments by those two (rude comment) persons about how they need to cut all the benefits to the elderly now because a lot will be dead by the next election and many that remain won't remember who slashed their benefits so they'd freeze in the winter and become housebound when they couldn't afford to pay for the bus fares.

 

And of course, they are sure we will understand we have to make these sacrifices for the next generation.

 

Just the most awful people on this planet, demonising those of us who they judge worthless.

 

Good luck and hope your lunchtime date has gone smoothly at least.

Well that is without a doubt the reason why we have a tory government now, that and the fact that the majority of people could not be bothered to actually vote, due to their lack of confidence in any of of the mainstream political parties , none imo are vote worthy

[ismylife]

I'm so sorry that you're going through this but in a way, profoundly grateful too because I am in much the same boat.

 

I got my appointment with only one week's notice and it was in a town that even by car/taxi would take the better part of an hour's journey and I don't have anyone to get me there, and certainly cannot afford a taxi and public transport is out of the question as like you, it would be taxi to the bus stop, then 3 different buses and I simply cannot even cope with a car journey of that length.

 

And I'd have been the same for getting up - I'd never make an appointment for just after 9am.

 

Like you, this is all in my application form but has been completely ignored.

 

So I phoned them up to try and explain and they found there was an assessment centre less than half the distance away. I repeatedly asked them about access because I am seriously struggling on crutches and live on my own, so no wheelchair or helper and specifically asked about the distance from where I could be dropped off and that i couldn't cope with having to walk far, around the building to a disabled access etc.

 

I was told - wait for it - that ALL their assessment centres had disability access both outside and inside, including lifts where necessary and no steps!!!!

 

I was also told that because I could get to my own GP (it's door to door, FFS), therefore I could get to an assessment and once they'd changed it (giving me an extra week to find out how I'm supposed to get there), it could not be changed.

 

I had no idea where this place was so took it on faith that I could be dropped off right by the PIP centre, only to find that they have no parking - that's in the town centre shopping car park, nearly a quarter of a mile away, and it's over 100m from where a car could dump me, assuming it's ok to do that at a very busy bus stop.

 

It is nothing short of wickedness, pure and simple, evil. This is not about 'just doing one's job', this is about actively destroying those who are utterly vulnerable.

 

I am also in the horrendous position of having one of the worst MPs possible - works with the Treasury and is all for removing benefits.

Edited November 22, 2015 by ismylife
Adding a bi tmore

[reallymadwoman]

At least now we both know it's not personal! It is sheer incompetence, but it's tempting to see the whole getting there thing as a test - if you get there, there's nothing wrong with you so no benefit but if you don't get there they stop your benefits anyway.

 

Incidentally, though ATOS SAY they can only change the appointment once, if you have a good reason for needing it to be changed again then DWP should overrule them, however it does usually involve form filling and is a hassle so I would advise against it unless you really have to.

 

I sincerely hope you are going to complain about your treatment, particularly over the lack of access. It may not help you but there is an outside chance it will help someone else. That said, all the shouting and screaming over the mess they made of my ESA assessment got me precisely nowhere and probably only served to put their backs up, so I have promised that this time I will just go through the motions until the assessment is done and then I shall be firing every barrel I've got.

 

Already I've started saving bits of information, such as from their own website where it says 'having first reviewed a copy of your form ..' (they're supposed to fill in a form saying what they've decided at this point, I shall be asking for a copy), 'it will sometimes be necessary to offer consultations in the next nearest centre to your home...', there are actually at least 4 centres closer than the one they offered me, etc, etc.

[reallymadwoman]

I know that we're not allowed (for all practical purposes, anyway) to audio record PIP assessments but I have severe memory issues AND I find writing very difficult so I often use an electronic note taker which is in effect a voice recorder, it just puts the sound into words for me to save me the effort of transcribing. Does anyone know if I'll be able to use this during a PIP assessment?

[Bazooka Boo]

I don't see why not, if it's an aid to help you in everyday life then I fail to see why you wouldn't be able to.

[Nystagmite]

I'd agree. However, you wouldn't be able to just post the recording online.

[reallymadwoman]

My note taker (I've been playing with it this afternoon) doesn't actually do an audio recording, it just tries to transcribe what has been said to it into a word processing document, which can be edited during or after the 'recording'. Since it doesn't actually record any audio, I'm going to assume I can use it though if there's any dispute during the assessment I would stop rather than risk the assessment being stopped. Any back up plans (one or more phones on voice recorder) are of course my own business because I know they wouldn't be allowed.

[ismylife]

At least now we both know it's not personal! It is sheer incompetence, but it's tempting to see the whole getting there thing as a test - if you get there, there's nothing wrong with you so no benefit but if you don't get there they stop your benefits anyway.

 

Incidentally, though ATOS SAY they can only change the appointment once, if you have a good reason for needing it to be changed again then DWP should overrule them, however it does usually involve form filling and is a hassle so I would advise against it unless you really have to.

 

I sincerely hope you are going to complain about your treatment, particularly over the lack of access. It may not help you but there is an outside chance it will help someone else. That said, all the shouting and screaming over the mess they made of my ESA assessment got me precisely nowhere and probably only served to put their backs up, so I have promised that this time I will just go through the motions until the assessment is done and then I shall be firing every barrel I've got.

 

Already I've started saving bits of information, such as from their own website where it says 'having first reviewed a copy of your form ..' (they're supposed to fill in a form saying what they've decided at this point, I shall be asking for a copy), 'it will sometimes be necessary to offer consultations in the next nearest centre to your home...', there are actually at least 4 centres closer than the one they offered me, etc, etc.

 

That's very interesting info, thank you RMW. I don't think it's incompetence though. There seem to be far too many of these seemingly incompetent appointments for it to be coincidental.

 

The whole process is a carefully designed trap. So if you can make the long journey, you're not disabled. If you can make the early appointment even though you have to stay up all night to make sure you get there, you're not disabled. If you can 'walk' (hobble, strain etc) the distance from their car parking arrangements to the door, you are not disabled.

 

You are constantly warned about losing your claim if you do not attend, so you contact them to explain that the appointment is not possible for you to make, and you've 'demonstrated' you can manage to arrange journeys, even though you may be falling apart with anxiety and stress.

 

It is so deceitful, so dishonest and the worse thing is it is far more likely to catch out those who are honest and truly trying their very best to cope but who need help - those who are cheats and have obtained the benefits in the past by lying, will know exactly how to work this system as well to their advantage.

 

As for recording the assessment, I'm trying to remember where I found it, but you can ask for the assessment to be recorded officially and then you get a copy of the recording.

 

I'm not sure how this will go down though - is it a good thing or not - will it risk alienating the assessor or not.

 

And this is something that no-one should have to start stressing over, either, but we do because they are so dishonest.

[SabreSheep]

The key to all this is how the descriptors apply.

 

To be able to do something you must be able to do it

 

A Repeatdly

B In reasonable time

C Without Pain

 

Claiments need to be able to stress the impact doing the tasks have on their daily life taking into account the above.

 

I walked 200m from the bus stop to the assessment center - may cost you points

 

I Walked 200m from the bus stop, with a walking aid, that took 30 mins for me to do and my legs have now swollen up and I would not be able to repeat the jorney - paints a vastly different picture and would not qualify under the descriptors

 

I feel that it is this bit that can be the result of so many successful appeals!

 

Get a copy of the descriptors

Understand them

Keep a diary daily that records how you did things, or if you needed help, or if you did not do things.

A Good example

 

"Had no breakfast today as did not have the energy/in too much pain to get up. My sister popped in at 4pm and prepared/helped prepare a meal"

 

"Unable to have lunch today as could not face leaving the house to buy food" (Anxiety, agro phobia etc)

 

 

The other key point is that you get points if the majority of the time you match the descryptor.

[honeybee13]

To add to what SS has said, there's also leemack's stikky on how to answer questions on the ESA50 and at the assessment.

 

HB

[reallymadwoman]

That's very interesting info, thank you RMW. I don't think it's incompetence though. There seem to be far too many of these seemingly incompetent appointments for it to be coincidental.

 

As for recording the assessment, I'm trying to remember where I found it, but you can ask for the assessment to be recorded officially and then you get a copy of the recording.

 

 

There is no facility to record PIP assessments though there is for ESA assessments.

[Nystagmite]

I doubt it, but I wonder if it would make any difference if your GP wrote a letter to say you can't manage steps, etc? Therefore, you need a home assessment. Actually, I can't understand why PIP isn't usually done at home, given that many would have adapted houses, etc.

[reallymadwoman]

Apparently Capita almost always do home assessments on request, but ATOS will only do them if forced. If they'd bothered looking, in my file there's a copy of the letter from my GP last time and their own report saying I needed a home assessment, but they've clearly not bothered reading any of it.

[reallymadwoman]

Well it seems that someone might have bothered to actually read my file - I know no one contacted my GP (had to speak to them this morning about something else and mentioned in passing that ATOS might contact them) and the letter was sent the day we phoned to cancel the first appointment - and I now have a home assessment, quite soon. I shall update on the process as and when.

 

For the purposes of adding to the complaint, I seem to remember from my ESA claim that they were not supposed to give more than a 1 hour time slot for appointments, anyone know if this is the same for PIP?

[reallymadwoman]

Given my previous experience with ATOS, I know there's a better than 90% chance they will cancel my appointment but we still have to do everything as if it will happen so I'm basically spending all day worrying about it, reading other peoples experiences online etc, and all night having nightmares. I have a consultant's opinion that my last hospital admission (3 days after the first appointment letter arrived and when I thought I might have to travel 40 miles) was at least partly due to stress. I wouldn't be at all surprised if there is once again a sudden deterioration in my condition over the next week or so, and then again every time they cancel.

 

I so need this appointment to go ahead that I haven't even reminded them about the need for a female assessor as I don't want them to have an excuse to cancel - the ESA fiasco was found against me mostly because, at least technically, I'd forced ATOS to cancel some of the appointments. That doesn't mean that I won't take up the complaint once it's sorted though - as soon as I get a decision, I'll be going after both DWP and ATOS with all guns firing, not least because I don't want to be doing this again when either ESA or PIP needs to be renewed.

[reallymadwoman]

Well, tomorrow is allegedly the big day and I think tonight I'm more likely to win the jackpot on the lottery before flying to the moon than to actually get any sleep - there's far too many what ifs floating about along with a plethora of should Is and a multitude of will theys.

 

What if they do actually turn up? Should I get dressed or not (it's usually about 50/50, but if I know there's someone coming around I would)? Will they notice the strategically placed clues to my condition e.g. plastic cup with straw on the table next to where I'll be sitting, or should I point them out or even is it too obvious? Should I just dump all the aids in a pile in the middle of the floor? And how are they likely to react if I tell them to foxtrot oscar when they ask to look in my bathroom?

[RaeUK]

Just wanted to wish you all the best, m'dear.