But why treat it any differently? If they cannot provide the information on a CC request, as Cabot cannot, then they cannot proceed with a claim?

So, would I not even send the next load of sewage dwellers another CCA request because they would not be able to prove the debt so could not proceed with anything?

So this presumably means I cannot challenge their decision? If they do sell it, how best to proceed after that? And - they haven't returned my £1 either!!! Another thought - if they have failed to provide the required documentation, and they cannot or will not provide evidence that their own acquisition of the debt was legally carried out, surely they don't have the legal right to sell it on either?

Well, I'm in there now and the first thing I've found is there is still a very old store card account which has been updated on 29 Feb (zero balance) which was supposed to have been closed something like 10 years ago - Creation Financial Services???? The next thing is a search showing from two companies I've never heard of and for nothing I've applied for Insurance Initiatives Limited (Iq) http://Www.Iil.Co.Uk/Consumers They searched this year at the beginning of Jan and last year on Jan 30th! And I've searched everywhere but there is nothing showing about Cabot (or Cap One which is my other bugbear at the moment). The only financial information showing is my two bank accounts and all is well there. My credit score is 650 which they say is high and my rating is 5/5.

Ahhh - not sure what you mean by that. Is this when I have to go back to something like Experian or Equifax and look at my file again?

An update here, in case it is of any help to anyone else. I finally got so fed up of being bombarded with the same utterly insensitive and totally inappropriate template demands, the threats, the mess of broken promises and essentially the fact that the different departments were clearly failing to communicate, i put in a complaint to the FOS. I detailed very carefully why I was complaining - ie that the way they had handled my account, totally confusing when one department said one thing and another dept said another, failure to be clear in their comms etc. An adjudicator contacted me eventually with what she felt was a reasonable outcome and offer from CapOne and although this did not address the main thrust of my complaint, I decided to accept it in the hope that it would give CO a bit of a kick up the rear end and bring a halt to their harassment at least. I sent off the acceptance and sat back expectantly for the letter of confirmation from CO and the agreed compensation. And I sat back, and I waited ............................................................ and guess what happened next? Nothing! Nada! to cut a long story short, I got back in touch with the FOS and insisted that the case was re-opened and escalated to an Ombudsman for a decision because this was yet another example of what I had been complaining about CO, that I wasn't prepared to be held to an agreement I accepted in good faith but which CO had welched on, and this time I wanted a decision that was legally binding on CO. But, instead of doing that, the adjudicator contacted CO again, against my express wishes and what she agreed, and got a 'bit more compensation'. Suffice to say I was furious and somewhat hit the roof. Well, it was escalated to the Ombudsman then and I am not happy with her findings as she's decided to ignore almost the whole reason and evidence of my complaint but did find against CO on one issue of communications. Apparently, the excuse that CO gave for not processing the original settlement (it was "put in the wrong queue"!!! Eh???) was acceptable to the FOS! Well, I now await the piddly enhanced settlement and the letter that CO were supposed to have sent to me back in February and will continue to pay them £1 per month in the meantime which they have accepted. But I don't imagine this arrangement will last for long before they get pushy again, but until then, they can have their £1 per month on a debt of over £5k

Update I received a very nice letter from Cabot (seriously - not a euphemism) in which they state that they cannot obtain the further documentation I requested (CCA) from the Co-op due to the age of the account. So, taking this, my health and financial situation into account, they have decided to accept the payments I have already made since they acquired the debt in partial settlement. My credit file will be updated to show it has been partially settled, I will not have to make any further payments and the account will be closed on their system. Now, I know this means the account will show as partially settled (not so good) on my credit file for 6 years. Apart from the fact that I'm never going to be applying for a mortgage or any credit cards, how could this affect me in other ways? It seems that this is their decision and not one I have any choice over - or do I? I cannot offhand remember when the account was defaulted by the Co-op, way back when - probably 2008/2009 but it has not been since then as far as I can recall. Do I sit back and just accept their decision or is there something else I could do / would be better doing?

Well, I have dug up the proof too so crossed fingers, and eyes, I'll be able to push for this one to be resolved before too long. I have to go as I am not supposed to sit at the pc for very long now as it causes me health probs but a big thank you all, again!

Oh lordy - that wretched wrong button strikes again. But surely Cabot would know, as professionals with long term working with the Co-op, that the account number they have is not just an ordinary current account? I'll give it careful thought how to handle this next and hope the magic is still working for me.

Hugs and kisses to you all - off to compose my response.

Oh frabjous day Bloomin wonderful I've finally got it ........................................................................................ and Cabot haven't!

This is a ruddy nightmare for me to get my brains around, but here goes. The Co-op "amalgamated" the two accounts (current account and Loan account) in September 2008 and "transferred the balance of the Loan Account to the Current Account" and subsequently sold that one debt in 2013, which they called the Current Account to Cabot. BUT - I've looked through all the bits of correspondence I can find from the Co-op to get to what I think - God I hope I'm getting there - you are talking about. So - in a letter from the Co-op dated 11 October 2008, they clearly have both the Loan Account number (which is the Sort Code, CA account number and the magic extra 2 digits) AND the Loan Account balance at that time which clearly proves the Loan Account number with the debt. This number is exactly the same one that is used by Cabot although obviously the amount has reduced AND is the same extended number that the Co-op used on their letter of notice of assignment to Cabot in March 2013 Have I finally got it now? Please tell me I'm getting the hang of this. Does this mean that Cabot DO have to provide the Loan Agreement, even though a small amount of that debt was part of the current account?

I don't have a way of putting up the letters here - no scanner or anything. The first letter confirmed the agreement with FOS that the Credit card account has been written off and that they've closed the account. With regard to the "above" account (which they insist on referring to the Current Account) they are willing to review the matter further once they have received up to date evidence of my ill health and details of my income and expenditure. They were sending a form separately for me to complete my income and they've placed my account on hold for 30 days to give me time to provide the information. ** At no time did I request a write off on the grounds of ill health - what I said in my letter of complaint back in June was: "...... I was asking for Cabot to give serious consideration to writing off my debt due to my continuing straightened circumstances which are never going to improve." I had only mentioned that I was disabled because having to send the letters which they kept ignoring was costing me a lot of money as the only way I could get around was by taxi. I have no intention of getting into another round (as with Cap One) of arguing about my health and it's irrelevance. The issue is about the fact that I am on basic State Pension which does not keep up with real life inflation and that I am not going be increasing my income by some magical means. If I do manage to improve my mobility with operations, I lose the DLA anyway! The second letter includes their budget form which is so inadequate and mostly useless, and they ask me to fill it out and return with my offer of repayment so they can then agree an affordable and fair repayment plant and that if I'm having difficulties to contact the same wretched organisations that tried to shaft me last time. Just not going there at all. I am paying Cap One £1 per month after the intervention by the FOS on that one as a long term agreement so Cabot (which is a smaller debt) are not going to get any more than that at best. BUT - where do I stand with this whole mess of the Co-op selling on a Current Account debt which was in the main, a Loan debt with a Loan Agreement (forceable or unenforceable)? Does Cabot have the right to pursue this without proving anything?

Oh drat - I've done it again - clicked on the wrong wretched button and lost my reply! GRRRRRRR Hang on and I'll try againl.

An update and would be grateful for some more info if possible The FOS got Cabot to finally agree to write off the debt which they cannot legally enforce, so that's confirmed and one finally out of the way. This then leaves the other debt which was mostly the Loan account, which the Co-op amalgamated with my old current account overdraft to create the one debt, initially 'handled' by Fred Int before being sold to Cabot. So, to get my mind clear again after so long, can I challenge this as still being mostly the old Loan debt and therefore require Cabot to provide the relevant documents under a CCA request? They have said they don't have to provide anything because it's a current account debt. It was not a current account debt that I agreed to. Second, when they request my income and expenditure, if I do supply the information in the hope of getting this debt written off, do I have to put down my Disability Living Allowance as "income" given that this is paid solely to help me get out and about which I otherwise would not be able to do, and to help a bit with my daily living? Does a creditor have the right to add that payment as income to use for paying off a debt? Onwards and upwards - and a belated happy new year (well, it's a happy Chinese New Year anyway) to one and all.

Does anyone know if there is a correct way to raise a complaint about the way ATOS have handled my assessment? I've been messed about from the beginning, finally got a home assessment booked for just before Christmas which they then cancelled less than 18 hours before the time. They sent me another date for 3 weeks later but I'll be in hospital recovering from a major op a few days before then. Phoned and explained, had to 'request' a call back from a supervisor, explained it all again the next day and the upshot from this is today I receive no less than 4 letters. Two are identical and are as if I have only just begun my claim, one advises me they cannot do this by a paper-based assessment (I told them that) and the fourth is yet another appointment for the day after the last one they sent out. IF by some miracle I am fit enough to return home, it won't be until that day and I'm going to be very stressed and needing loads of help to just get back settled in as I live on my own and have no-one to support me. But I may not be fit enough to come home that day or the next and it's setting me up to fail because I won't be able to keep the appointment. So far I have been given no less than 5 different appointments since November and I'm just losing it completely. Is there an official complaint process because I cannot seem to find it on their website at all. I'm finding it very difficult to even read their website too because it's small pale font and it's so much information to wade through to realise I cannot find the answer I'm looking for.

That's really great news RMW but what a nightmare you've been put through to get it sorted. I will say 'thank you' again because I'm going through similar problems now and I can honestly say I understand why people just decide to end it all because it's an utterly vile and cruel system. I shall start my own thread tho. Wishing you all the best for the New Year and a more peaceful and constructive future.

That's very interesting info, thank you RMW. I don't think it's incompetence though. There seem to be far too many of these seemingly incompetent appointments for it to be coincidental. The whole process is a carefully designed trap. So if you can make the long journey, you're not disabled. If you can make the early appointment even though you have to stay up all night to make sure you get there, you're not disabled. If you can 'walk' (hobble, strain etc) the distance from their car parking arrangements to the door, you are not disabled. You are constantly warned about losing your claim if you do not attend, so you contact them to explain that the appointment is not possible for you to make, and you've 'demonstrated' you can manage to arrange journeys, even though you may be falling apart with anxiety and stress. It is so deceitful, so dishonest and the worse thing is it is far more likely to catch out those who are honest and truly trying their very best to cope but who need help - those who are cheats and have obtained the benefits in the past by lying, will know exactly how to work this system as well to their advantage. As for recording the assessment, I'm trying to remember where I found it, but you can ask for the assessment to be recorded officially and then you get a copy of the recording. I'm not sure how this will go down though - is it a good thing or not - will it risk alienating the assessor or not. And this is something that no-one should have to start stressing over, either, but we do because they are so dishonest.

I'm so sorry that you're going through this but in a way, profoundly grateful too because I am in much the same boat. I got my appointment with only one week's notice and it was in a town that even by car/taxi would take the better part of an hour's journey and I don't have anyone to get me there, and certainly cannot afford a taxi and public transport is out of the question as like you, it would be taxi to the bus stop, then 3 different buses and I simply cannot even cope with a car journey of that length. And I'd have been the same for getting up - I'd never make an appointment for just after 9am. Like you, this is all in my application form but has been completely ignored. So I phoned them up to try and explain and they found there was an assessment centre less than half the distance away. I repeatedly asked them about access because I am seriously struggling on crutches and live on my own, so no wheelchair or helper and specifically asked about the distance from where I could be dropped off and that i couldn't cope with having to walk far, around the building to a disabled access etc. I was told - wait for it - that ALL their assessment centres had disability access both outside and inside, including lifts where necessary and no steps!!!! I was also told that because I could get to my own GP (it's door to door, FFS), therefore I could get to an assessment and once they'd changed it (giving me an extra week to find out how I'm supposed to get there), it could not be changed. I had no idea where this place was so took it on faith that I could be dropped off right by the PIP centre, only to find that they have no parking - that's in the town centre shopping car park, nearly a quarter of a mile away, and it's over 100m from where a car could dump me, assuming it's ok to do that at a very busy bus stop. It is nothing short of wickedness, pure and simple, evil. This is not about 'just doing one's job', this is about actively destroying those who are utterly vulnerable. I am also in the horrendous position of having one of the worst MPs possible - works with the Treasury and is all for removing benefits.

Wonderful - although I wish it didn't take me so long to grasp the legal speak these days. I'm not writing to Cabot any more - it's going to the FOS, along with the complaint about the Co-op and they can explain themselves to the Obudsman. I've gone through it with the guys on the phone and they've given me some very good advice and directions. I know it's generally held that the FOS are not always that helpful, but at least I'll get an independent view of this mess and hopefully a more effective outcome than the weasel ones so far. They were immensely helpful in resolving a couple of complaints some years ago, so apart from the cost of photocopying everything and the postage, I don't think I have anything to lose really. So, I may be gone some time now - may not even be back before my first op at the rate things have been going.

Well, thank you for that explanation and so it gets worse for Cabot, because I never agreed to have an overdraft of such a large sum of money because the Co-op merged the loan account with the current. But they are saying they don't have to provide the documents to prove that I agreed such a massive O/D - really?!?!?!?!? Ho hum.

Well, they're not getting any agreement from me to pay so much as a penny. But is it something about current accounts that put them outside CCA requests?

Just a wee update. Whilst i know that I can ignore these eejits until or unless they can provide the relevant paperwork, this is not a comfortable situation for me because I feel at risk, especially since I have now learnt I am facing at least two major operations and long-term recovery which is going to cover the better part of next year. So, I gave them over 2 months to get back in touch with me as they stated they would over a number of issues, not just whether they could come up with the paperwork and listed all the errors and what really comes under the heading of 'misconduct' over my accounts and have requested a copy of the Deed of Assignment to ensure this was correctly conducted. The response is a template letter pointing out the obvious "... we have not been able to provide you with the requested information in the relevant time period" No mention of the extra information I requested. They say they will continue to request the information from the original lender and my account shall remain on hold with the Customer Care Department , and that my credit agreement is currently unenforceable, however I am still obliged to repay the outstanding balance. Now - this is just for the credit card account - no mention at all of the original loan accoun t which the Co-op turned into an overdraft back in 2009 without my agreement or explaining what they were doing and why and how that would affect me. I know what my next steps will be with all of this in terms of their mishandling from the start and repeated failures, but at the moment, I just have that one question about the Loan Account / overdraft. Where do I stand with this as Cabot said they do not have to provide the paperwork for an overdraft on a current account?

And are not what I would describe as entirely honest either. In fact, given the baloney spiel they came out with, and the way they led up to the crud denouement, they are no better than the wretched finance companies. It's all about fleecing people, one way or another. I think I'd rather face the nasties than the weaselly word pedlars.

They were so plausible and yet again, I was a gullible numpty!