I think I'll have to wait to see what is provided, if anything, from the SAR to the Co-op to see how much I paid for the Priv account as i cannot even remember how long I had it for. So, where do I stand with Cabot with the loan being transferred to the current account as an overdraft back in 2008 before it was sold on? Can they enforce it or is there another letter I need to send to deal with this?

Hi Have nothing much else to update yet except to say I got the SAR in the post. Have not been very well at all - hence not responding to you earlier. dx100uk - Yes, that is exactly what I seem to have. So, I've gone over everything and I cannot remember why I thought the loan and current accounts were "merged". What they did was to pay off the loan account by increasing the overdraft by that amount, then close the loan account first, and eventually the current account some 6 months later. there is nothing in writing at the time to say they'd done this neither was I given any choice about it. The correspondence just went from referencing the Loan account only and then it referenced the Current account. It was only when I received the printouts some time later that I could see how they had 'adjusted' the accounts. So, if the Co-op have sold on my loan account as a huge overdraft, is it still enforceable and does Cabot still have to get a copy of the original loan agreement? How do I handle this now? With regard to the Privilege account, again you are correct in that I was charged a monthly fee but I cannot remember it, only that in a letter of the same date that they had closed the Loan account without my knowing, they say that because I have failed to clear the overdraft (which I had no idea at that time now included the Loan amount of over £4k) they were cancelling all my 'benefits' and changing it to a standard account. The monthly charges would go back from around 2006 (?) to August 2008 but I can only find odd bits of a statement in 2008 which shows I was paying £8.50 per month. Would this be too late to claim back?

andyorch - I quoted Cabot the two account numbers that I have. I had to go back over all my paperwork to remember this but the Personal Loan account always did have the same number as the Current account and in looking at my earliest correspondence, I can remember a conversation with the Co-op about that but cannot remember their explanation. But this was how it was set up from the beginning. I have separate correspondence from the Co-op where they use the same account number for both the Personal Loan account and the Privilege Current Account. I also have the printouts which they sent covering transactions for both accounts back in 2009 when I was having a battle to get the info from FI. These show the same account number for the Loan account and Current account before they were merged. The other one is the Credit Card which does have a different acc number and which Cabot are saying they may take up to 40 days to get the information on etc. dx100uk I do know that the accounts were merged, as explained. I have the printouts to show this. Even if I had sent the SAR immediately when you suggested it two weeks ago, they have 40 days to comply so at a guess, I'd still be waiting for anything. Earlier you said: So I took it that you meant I should just wait for Cabot to respond to the CCA requests. I realise it's not always easy to get all the facts out and make sure I get things clear, and I was confused about what you think a SAR would achieve that might help. So, thinking this through now - I have correspondence from the Co-op that clearly shows there was a Loan Account which was separate from the Current Account and then the printouts showing they were merged. So if Cabot are saying that this debt is only a "current account with overdraft facilities" and won't apply to the Co-op for the information under the CCA request, I come back to this question of does the action that the Co-op took in merging the accounts affect my rights under the s.77/78 etc? If I send the SAR to the Co-op and they fail to produce a copy of the original agreement of the Personal Loan, all I have to prove it was a PL is the correspondence during the first year or so when I into difficulties and the printouts. Even if they do provide the information (a copy of the original loan agreement), does this make a difference to how Cabot have to treat it? I shall send the SAR because Cabot clearly will not move to obtain the info on the Personal Loan agreement and I have it all ready to go, but it's an extra £11 at least to get the Postal Order and send the letter by RD and I have to wait until I am going into town for shopping etc because it costs me in taxi fares as I'm disabled and that's the only way I currently have to get around. I wish there was an easier way to do all this as it's flipping difficult going over all the old stuff and trying to get it into my brain and remember all the facts and where to go with them. Even in writing this info tonight and trying to get all the info out, I have also found more letters that I wrote but didn't print, and some other stuff from FI that I'd fortunately only archived and not thrown out, but will need to go over this tomorrow. I do thank you all for sticking with this.

Eek I just typed out a long response and it's not posted. I must have done something wrong. I hate it when that happens because now I'll have to remember what I said and why because once I've typed something it goes out of my head. dx100uk - I haven't sent the SAR to the Co-op as I mentioned above. I'm not sure I understand what you mean when you say 'find the reason' for them selling the debt. They sold this at the time when their real murky business situation was coming to public light. If I have to send a SAR, it means having to buy a £10 postal order and I'm not sure what this will result in. Even if it does show that they sold the debts to legally 'adjust' their books, I don't understand how that will help. What kind of thing do you hope the SAR results will show because I know and have found the clear evidence that the original PPI on the loan was repaid in full and the outstanding amounts are definitely the actual debts because I also received a refund for the one time a penalty payment was charged after a lot of pushing? I am more concerned that the Co-op have merged the PL account with the old current account and how this will affect my rights under Section 77/78/79. Conliff, I understand where you are coming from and want to help, thank you, but really don't want to discuss that as it detracts from the actual topic and risks getting in the way of what is important for me right now.

But if they are claiming that the other debt is just an overdraft when it was originally a Loan and a small bit of an overdraft, where does that leave me with that debt and them having to supply the proofs of the original loan? They returned my postal order by the way!

I'm back a bit sooner than expected. Given that they failed to respond to my letter in June and then took another month to respond to my letter to the CEO (9 weeks overall), I'm beginning to wonder if they monitor this forum and work out who is who where they can. Am I being a bit over-sensitive or is this likely because they've responded like greased lightning to my request and this gets a bit complicated now. First the easy one, this is for the Credit Card debt. Essentially they state they do not have the information but have requested it with a copy of the credit agreement etc from the original lender. BUT - whilst they acknowledge the 12 day time limit before the account becomes unenforceable, they reckon they will be able to provide this within 40 days. If they cannot get that info within 40 days, they'll write to me again. So the first question is this - am I now obliged to wait the 40 days or is it 12 + 2 and that's it? The second letter states that there is no need for them to provide a copy of my credit agreement under the CCA for Current Accounts and Overdraft Facilities. Now, this is not right because I definitely took out a Personal Loan with the Co-op around 2006 / 2007 and had an overdraft on a current account of around £700. I have some printouts from 2008 - 2009 in which the Co-op finally merged the current account and PL accounts. It looks as though the Co-op has merged the two debts into the current account. So does this mean the Loan Agreement was cancelled or does Cabot have to supply a copy of the original loan agreement to show the debt is still enforceable? Going through the mass of letters and comms over the past 7 years, I'm really very teed off to find how much I was messed about and treated with but then I guess when you're in the midst of the threats and struggling financially and desperate to keep going every day, it's not always easy to step back and review everything to fight back.

I only have a very basic phone as it's what I prefer and can work with so I can't screen calls but I can just not answer them which is what often has to happen when I get those wretched calls from overseas to try and 'fix' my computer! It's not too much of a problem they can leave messages and I can save them and I have my mobile phone for my family and friends if necessary. I sometimes even unplug it anyway. Over the years, I've come to realise that there is some kind of collective mental defect that seems to exist in all these financial institutions and that you only have to wait and they'll start making one mistake after another. So, first mistake was changing the DCA. Once I got their letters that was it - I simply was not going to pay them a thing and cancelled my SO's to FI asap. Then they're claiming that they cannot access the original phone call - why am I not surprised about this?!? Given their other claims, frankly I'm wondering if they've even doctored the notes and removed that recording from their records. But still, they are never going to be able to explain why it took two operatives, 19 minutes just to take an alleged complaint about a DCA not making any contact. Now they've taken the debt back, but they've ignored my offer by letter of a token payment of 3% of the outstanding original debt to write the debt off. I was originally prepared (and offered during that phone call) to go without my DLA for a month just to get rid of this which would have been 5% of the outstanding original debt so I could just get it out of my life, but they've declined it. I cannot even see where the business case is for this - they get less per year from me than one of their managers would spend on coffee in a week and if they'd accepted that offer, it might well have paid the outstanding amount that they paid for the debt from the Co-op in the first place. And if they cannot produce the CCA, then they will definitely get nothing more. That will teach them to lose recordings, make bogus notes and decline offers to settle!

Thank you. I've not spoken to an actual DCA since .................. 2009? It has recently only been the one phone call to those *!*!* at Cabot in April. At least it's helped me to feel really gritty about this now. I try to live my life with some kind of moral standards and to try and treat others as I'd like to be treated, but their morals have sunk to a level that has lost all consideration from me. So, unless they come up with the goods beforehand, I'll be back after the first week in September.

Thanks, theoldrouge. When does the counting begin from? It's a bit of a bummer because it's going to be an extra day with the bank holiday weekend. I'm not doing anything by phone now - but should I respond to their letter I got today or wait and see what happens with the s.77/78 requests?

Updates. First, the DCA began ringing me at home - twice within 40 minutes, hassling me to call them. I didn't answer because I couldn't get downstairs in time so they left messages, which included personal information. Given that I have not confirmed my telephone number with them, they could have been giving this information to anyone!! I ignored them but was preparing for the harassment to continue. In the meantime have finally managed to send the Section 77/78 requests - have had internet connection problems and been rather unwell again so just not able to get this sorted until this week. But that has now crossed in the post with a long response from Cabot finally, two months after my initial letter to them which I received today. In the letter they state that the notes from my original phone call (which they cannot access a recording of for technical reasons!!!) make no mention whatsoever of my request for Cabot to write the debt off but only that I'd phoned them to complain about Fredricksons. The letter states that the notes made by both operatives I spoke to only mention my "complaint". How convenient that both sets of notes say the same thing and nothing whatsoever about the actual reason for the call. I'm a furious about this blatant dishonesty and deception about that phone call because I only mentioned why I would not contact Fredricksons when they mentioned that I should have done so. They said they would have to contact FI to discuss whether they'd hand over the accounts to Cabot before the rep could raise it with his manager. Anyway, I have been offered compensation of £50 for the trouble and extra costs I've had to try and get a response from them, but they won't write off the debt. What they have done is to recall the debt from the DCA and passed it to their Sensitive Support Team (meh!) So at least that explains why I've not had any more phone calls from the DCA. What they have also said is that in exceptional circumstances they would consider placing the accounts on long term hold without payments. Well, why not just write the ruddy debts off if they're going to go without payment at all? So, there is nothing I can do but wait to see what happens with the Section 77/78 requests. Is it 12 + 2 days from the date it should be received? And does the 12 days include the weekend or is it 12 working days? As for the rest, I don't know how they are going to justify that a 19 minute phone call was to complain that I had not been contacted by a DCA - who in their right mind would care if they'd not heard from a DCA? Do I respond to this letter or just sit tight for now?

It's a long time ago, dx100uk, but I seem to remember that the reason for doing the SAR was to make sure the original loan and the credit card debt were enforceable. That is, there was no loophole for me to get out of it due to incorrect form filling etc. That's what I meant by right and tight. Co-op sold the debt around the time they were having embarrassing difficulties and again, my memory is not good these days, but I think they had to do something asap to sort out their own finances which had come to light as pretty dire. It was back in 2013, if that's any help for anyone who remembers. I'm not going to get in contact with the new DCA. I will just send those 2 CCA's and wait and see what happens next and update the thread as and when.

Hi Mike770 and all others who have responded. I am sending the 2CCA requests as advised not sure about doing the SAR with the Co-op because I seem to remember doing this before and I do have a load of paperwork which I seem to remember is right and tight. However today I have another development. Cabot have ditched Fredricksons and I have received comms from another DCA called Debt Managers (Services) Ltd in Rotherham. It's at least a better comm than the last shoddy lot used to send out BUT, if I am now going to dispute this with Cabot, can I just ignore their instructions on how to continue paying? Do I need to let them know I am in dispute with Cabot?

I keep getting logged out. :o( The PPI first. I received all the paperwork from the Co-op when all the financial institutions had to send it out in 2013 and still have it and have never used it because I'm honest I guess. The PPI was refunded back in 2009 when I kicked up a stink with the Co-op because of my circumstances in being effectively forced to leave work and then being told the PPI would not be honoured. That's a whole other story but it was a very bad time and space mentally for me and although I could have tried for constructive unfair dismissal, the whole thing was too overwhelming and I was not at all well. If I filled in the paperwork and make the claim, it would be dishonest frankly. I have not had any contact with Freds since 2011 because the last time I wrote to them, they could not be bothered to respond. Cabot's comment about this which was what they said was part of my complaint (how can anyone complain they've not been bothered by a DCA??) was that because Freds had an ongoing repayment plan in place (which they never responded to agree to in 2011), they had no cause to attempt to contact me. Cabot will not respond to me any more to deal with my complaint about the handling of my request and how they raised a complaint I did not make, and that I know I can take to the Ombudsman which I believe will cost Cabot. I know I cannot force them to accept my offer to close the debt, but I can take the payments down to £1 per month and tell them to go coco for anything else. It will be more costly to collect the debt than the money they get too. Do I even have to tell Fredricksons or shall I just reduce the payments, send a letter to Cabot to tell them why, tell them to discuss it with Freds and leave it at that? Forgot the last answer. Yes, the debts are on my credit file but they don't seem to have had any effect on my day to da y living such as changing to a new phone company. I only have a basic bank account with one bank and an old Barclays account which I really do not use any more and no credit or store cards. I just do not want them and that keeps me safe.

Thank you, Conniff. That does make sense. Well, mine would not have been statuted barred and clearly I was paying my agreed monthly payments so something was collectable. If I send them the section 77/78 request and they comply, that does not help me, does it? Or have I misunderstood? I had another question I completely forgot last night. The Co-op passed my debts onto Freds just for collection back in 2009 or thereabouts. But the Co-op still kept the ownership of the debts. When they sold them to Cabot, I was told to keep my 'relationship' with Freds ie to keep paying as I had done and communicating etc. But when I called Cabot to ask if they would consider writing off my debt, in the course of the long convo, they said that they would have to ask Freds if they would be prepared to pass the debt back to Cabot and that until they had agreed this, they could not come to a decision because it was Freds who were 'in charge' of the debt, or some similar wording. Now, I do not see why Cabot could not simply take the decision if they actually own the debt, and they have never answered this either. Is this them just taking me for a ride and I was well and truly lied to that day? Surely Cabot own the debt, Cabot can take the decisions? I don't pay much per month on these but I'm thinking of just writing to Freds / Cabot and telling them that due to my ever tightening circumstances, they will have to accept £1 per month if they won't agree to write it off for a token payment. I was going to use my DLA of a month just to get rid of the misery of the debt, but if they won't accept that, then they'll have to see the payments reduced to rock bottom.

Hi dx100uk Sorry I'm having problems with my internet connection and keep getting booted off. Yes, cashcow does sound about right for how I'm feeling. The sale was in March 2013. One was a credit card and one was a loan with the small overdraft having been added to the loan debt some years back (2009 I think). The Co-op did write to me to let me know and Cabot then wrote afterwards "welcoming me to Cabot" - I'm sure it was a warm welcome since they must have seen me coming, and they mentioned confirmation of my "relationship" with Freds remaining in place. I feel like something is crawling over my skin when I re-read that. But all this makes me think they've done this properly and have the paperwork all set up from the Co-op.

Thank you andyorch. So, this commercially sensitive information means that the Cabots of this world get to pay peanuts the debts but then rake in the money over and beyond what they paid for it. I'm assuming that the remains of the original debt is then written off as tax relief by the creditors, so they have not lost out at all and in effect, that written off debt could then be said to have been paid for by the taxman, the Govt, whatever? I wanted to know in case I could use it as leverage if necessary so that is good to have the ball park figure. Personally I think the selling on of debt should be made illegal, but then this country is morally bankrupt in the main now anyway so that's never going to happen. If I send that section 77/78 request and they do comply in time, I guess that doesn't help me much at all? I'm searching the library now.

Hi Is it ever possible to find out how much a debt has been sold on for? My old bank (Co-op) sold my two debts onto Cabot (when they desperately had to dump old and non productive debts) but the DCA remained as Fredricksons. I have continued to pay this but as I am a disabled pensioner on pension credit which does not keep up with the cost of living I was looking to take my life back and try to get Cabot to agree to accept a write-off with a token payment. So far, against everything they said, they have raised a complaint against Freds that I did not make in any way, investigated that non-complaint which I did not agree to or know about, and totally ignore what was simply a request to consider writing off the debt, and told me they would not enter into any further communication about "my" complaint. I have now raised an actual complaint about the fact that they seriously misled me and completely failed to respond as they had promised and described. In short, nothing was conducted or replied to that I was told would happen - nothing at all. No response at all for nearly two months. I will take this up with the Ombudsman if only to raise the issue that Cabot have lied and misled me, raised a complaint I did not make and failed to respond to a complaint that I have made. But as part of my fighting back, I would like to know if I have any chance with requesting the information about how much Cabot paid for my debts because if it was the proverbial peanuts, then I must surely have repaid it all by now. Has anyone ever found this out and if not, is it a secret that is enshrined in tablets of stone that no-one has ever breached, and if so, does anyone know why we cannot have this information?