Council PCN from 2013 now with Jacobs bailiffs - ** RESOLVED **

[Vondoothoven]

Good morning - I wondered if anyone could help me.

 

My live in partner received a Notice of Enforcement from Jacobs Enforcement Agents yesterday for an upaid Borough Council parking ticket on 31.5.13 with the total sum being £157 (£82 debt and £75 compliance stage fee). She has until 6pm on 27/08/15 to pay.

 

That is the first notification she has had in relation to a PCN and the problem is that her car was still registered to her old address in early 2013 as obviously all the paperwork was sent there. She maintains she never received a ticket on her windscreen and would have paid it asap if she had.

She phoned Jacobs yesterday before telling me and explained the above, but they put pressure on her to pay immediately which she didn't. All she knows about the PCN is the date and her reg number - no Notice to keeper, etc.

 

I phoned the Council and explained but got put through to an outfit called 'Chipside' who I never heard off and had a 0845 number. I tried to explain again, offering to pay the fine but was told. no as its passed onto the bailiffs. The operater told me to ring a penalty enforcement crowd, (I think), which there was no answer.

 

Although the total cost is not too bad so far, my partner is panicking and stressed out, and we obviously feel that she cannot defend herself due to no evidence or documentation until now.

 

I have researched Jacobs and they seem like a nasty piece of work so we would like to get it sorted as soon as.

 

What would be her best options at this stage? There is just so much conflicting advice out there but don't want to pay these parasites until we are sure we have all the bases covered.

 

Thanks in advance!!

[Vondoothoven]

I have read another post on this forum which has jogged my memory. The operator at Chipside advised me to ring Traffic Enforcement Centre for a witness statement, not penalty enforcement.

 

Really frustrating this end, as I am at work and can't phone on the partners behalf until I get home. Grrr.

[Jamberson]

Yep, that's how you defend it. Your partner needs forms to file an OUT OF TIME witness statement. It consists of two forms, the TE9 and the TE7. Can you obtain them first, then post back to clarify what needs to be written - it's important they are completed correctly. You have a week left, so no need to panic, but do get the forms ASAP. I think they can be downloaded from the TEC website, if you have a look around.

[Vondoothoven]

Okay, thanks Jamberson - will do

[Vondoothoven]

I have downloaded and printed out both forms.

 

On the TE9 I take it she ticks the 'I did not receive the Notice to Owner PCN.' box.

 

On th TE7, there is a field to fill in 'for reason to apply for permission to file a statement or file a witness statement.' I take she states that all all the paperwork was send to her previous address?

 

The only problem is, she moved to my house in February 2013 and not sure when she informed DVLA - it was obviously after 31.5.13. I will check that with her later and ring the council to double check the address they used.

[Jamberson]

If she moved to your address in February, the DVLA should have her as living there from February onwards, if she told them the date of the move. This could be important - so you really do need to be certain which address the council were writing to. When you know, can you tell us whether it was the old one or the current one - it makes a difference.

[Vondoothoven]

Yes, they were writing to her old address. The bad news is that she told DVLA in Sept/Oct 2014, about a year and a half later. Thinking about that, I wouldn't have to disclose it, just state that she did not inform DVLA in May 2013.

[Jamberson]

You don't need to mention DVLA at all. It's not important - what matters is establishing that the notices were not served, ie that they were never delivered to her home, irrespective of how that happened.

 

So, on the TE9, as you say, tick the box saying she did not receive the Notice to Owner, and fill in the rest. She has to sign the forms, of course, not you.

 

The TE7 becomes very important now - you must spell it out clearly - explain the situation and tell them the old address, the date of the move, the new address and point out the date of the contravention. If possible, include some documentary proof of the move, eg a rent agreement and put "see attached" in the box too. Make it so there is no doubt whatsoever.

 

The Council will send the notices to whatever address DVLA has the registered keeper living at on the date of the contravention. So regardless of when you told them, they will advise the council that on 31.5.13, the keeper lived at xyz, and that's where everything will go. But as I say, no need to mention that - just that they went to the wrong address.

 

I always think the forms should be posted back to TEC but others say to both post and email them, so that's probably best. Send them to TEC though, not the Council.

[Vondoothoven]

Thanks so much for that, Jamberson. I will get the forms filled in and posted today.

 

I take it if the above is successful, TEC contact the Council who in turn, inform Jacobs and my partner can pay or dispute the PCN?

 

Thanks again!

[Jamberson]

If it is accepted, and you have every chance it will be, Jacobs will be instructed to stop action and waive their fees, so that's the end of them as far as you're concerned.

 

You will normally be sent a new NTO to your current address, and as you say, you can appeal it or pay. The letter of the law states that the Council should actually refer the case to the adjudicator for a hearing, so there is a possibility that this will happen - but you don't have to attend, you can pay it instead if you wish, as it will be back at the original cost.

 

Probably, they'll send an NTO though, and you can decide what to do at that point.

 

If they don't accept it, post back here for advice - there's another process you will need to follow if you want to battle on.

[Vondoothoven]

Forms filled in and sent, Jamberson. I also included a dated tenancy agreement and a photo copy of Jacobs demands and highlighted the pay by date.

 

Its now a waiting game, (fingers crossed)

 

Thanks for your help!!!!

[Vondoothoven]

Just a quick update.

 

I posted the forms okay, sent them off to TEC over a week ago and phoned Jacobs to get some extra time - they gave me another week.

 

I phoned the local council and spoke to a very helpful lady who is going to contact the said Bailiffs for a months grace and send the NTK etc on completion of my appeal re time. If my partner wishes to pay then, it will only be £50.

 

I suspect Council already have spoken to Jacobs as the guy from there was too nice to me over the phone and I think he knew the score.

 

Thanks for your help so far, Jamberson - looking good!

[mikeymack2002]

Would the warrant now be out of date? How did they find you at your new address? Plus the warrant is address specific.. I believe...

[Jamberson]

The warrant may be out of date and may have an old address on - but the bailiffs do seem to know where the OP is living, and the debt does not disappear if the warrant expires. So if he does nothing, there is a chance they will apply for a new warrant. Better to get it fully resolved, then that's the end of it.

[Vondoothoven]

Sorry I have not been on here in ages - was abroad for a while and busy, busy, busy.

 

Yes, the council accepted my partners circumstances and she has paid the ticket at £50. Done and dusted!

 

Thanks again for all your help, Jamberson.

[honeybee13]

Thank you for the update, I'll mark your thread as resolved.

 

HB

[Jamberson]

Well done.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

I always think the forms should be posted back to TEC but others say to both post and email them, so that's probably best. Send them to TEC though, not the Council.

 

Delighted to hear that this Out of Time witness statement has been accepted and I would suspect that it is mainly due to having a properly completed application outlining the reason WHY the witness statement is being submitted LATE.

 

On your suggestion Jamberson about the forms should be posted, I always suggest that they be emailed. The reason being that in almost all cases, these applications need to be submitted very quickly because in the vast majority of cases, the individual usually only finds out about the penalty charge notice when a bailiff visits (or a letter is received from the enforcement agency).

 

If the application is submitted to TEC by email before midday it is usually the case that TEC will process the form by 4pm and email the local authority that the application has been received. The LA are then under a legal duty to instruct the enforcement agent to cease all enforcement pending the application being considered. In reality, the LA will not receive that instruction until the following morning. The enforcement companies computer system will be updated within a few hours. If the OoT is sent by post this can take abut 3 days to be received (depending on the day it is posted) and by the time the application has been processed by TEC another day or so can elapse.

 

PS: It is vitally important if sending by email that the individual carefully watches their email inbox to ensure that they receive a confirmation from TEC of safe receipt.

 

A copy can also be sent by post. There is nothing like keeping TEC staff on their toes.