Can they make him go self employed

[chezza2409]

My son who is a student has been working for a pub a couple of nights a week (cash in hand) His employer told the staff last night that they are now "self employed". Shouldnt he have to sign a contract or something to this effect and how does he go about informing HMRC

 

many thanks

[unclebulgaria67]

They realised that they would be caught out not paying taxes, so now the employee is casual self employed, with no contract of employment. This is a bit cheeky.

 

Would HMRC allow him to register as self employed ? I think he will have to contact the relevant tax office to see what he has to do. Probably just complete a form to register his details.

[chezza2409]

They have 3 bar staff and have all been told the same, he has been employed there for almost 1 year, just seems a bit strange to me. I will investigate who he needs to contact at HMRC. I didnt think bar staff could be self employed (but who knows)

[Mr.P]

I didnt think bar staff could be self employed (but who knows)

 

Pretty sure bar staff can not be classed as self employed. See this page to confirm:

https://www.gov.uk/employment-status-indicator

 

Sounds like the landlord is trying to pull a fast one, and when he gets caught out, HMRC will want to have words.

[chezza2409]

I thought that too Mr.P

[obiter dictum]

No they cannot make him just go self employed, especially if he has been working for over a year. He will have a contract of employment, even if that contract is implied. What about accrued holiday entitlement over the year. If he wants you to go self employed he has to negotiate your contract.

 

To be honest you have the employer by the short and curlies, no wage slip, it is illegal to pay cash in hand

 

The problem is you have been working less than a year so he could get rid of you. If he is playing this game i would be seeking him to buy you out of your contract or you will have to let HMRC deal with it

[chezza2409]

Thank you capquest worst knightmare I thought that too. He was told apparently he is not entitled to holiday as he was "casual labour" although it has been the same 2 afternoon every week for the last year. He is leaving in just over a month to go to uni but I feel its unfair for the staff remaining there. Should we inform HMRC?

[obiter dictum]

Yes i would if he is stabbing you in the back.

 

You have a contract of employment just on custom and practice if you have been doing it for a year

 

I would try getting a few quid out of him myself on the QT first, in addition to accrued holiday entitlement. I would hate to think what the brewery or managing agents will feel if they got wind of this. The manager will probably be out of a job himself

[chezza2409]

Its the brewery themselves. The manager gives them the hours and they bring the wages themselves on payday. Dont think the manager really has much say, he seems a bit of a puppet. My son had his bike stolen from inside the pub the other month whilst he was working and when we tried to claim against the pubs insurance they poo pooed that!! I will be glad when hes out of there to be honest

[Mr.P]

He was told apparently he is not entitled to holiday as he was "casual labour" [...] Should we inform HMRC?

 

I have worked as a "casual labourer", for a while through an employment agency, then on a zero hour contract with a major employer. Have always had holiday accrued, but it was generally paid in lieu once the job was finished.

 

It would certainly be worth having a word with HMRC and ACAS. Your son is (to use a colloquialism) being shafted and taken for a ride. He doesn't owe the "employer" any favours, and it might help others in the same boat.

[Ethel Street]

A word of caution before you start shopping this employer to HMRC. Has your son declared this income to HMRC? As it's only a couple of nights a week (and it straddles 2 tax years) he's not likely to be earning above the personal tax allowance unless he has other income, but even so he's supposed to declare it.

 

On the other hand if he only started working during 2014/15 tax year there's still some time to go before the deadline for reporting income to HMRC.

 

There's an HMRC tax fraud reporting page

 

https://online.hmrc.gov.uk/shortforms/form/TEH_IRF?dept-name=TEH&sub-dept-name=&location=39&origin=http://www.hmrc.gov.uk

[ericsbrother]

He is not self-employed but that does not mean tht he is entitled to holiday pay as a zero hours casual employee. He MAY be entitled to a pay uplift but that will depend upon interpretation of any contract. The pub may claim it is included in the pay (unless on min wage)