PCN Parking Solutions Charge Notice

[Anubis1275]

Afternoon Caggers, I wonder if I may have some help on this one. One of our company large minibuses had to park in the staff car park at the William Harvey Hospital Ashford as there was no suitable size parking space elsewhere. The driver and assistant were escorting a person to the hospital and both had to wait with him whilst there. We have now received the attached charge notice.

 

We have until 21 Jul to appeal and I am going to do this online on Mon 20th Jul using GPEOL, mostly just to annoy them and also to obtain a POPLA ref, then get my ducks in a row whilst I await their response. The issuers are members of the BPA, this is is not stated on the notice but it does mention to look at their website for details of any credited trade association. I thought this had to be displayed on the notice? I have them on procedural errors regarding the POFA 2012 but if anyone can spot what else I can hit them with please do let me know.

 

Thank you all very much

[ericsbrother]

admin charges added? I dont think so. That is quite simply breaking the law.

There are several ways of approaching this one but first of all, was there a ticket attached to the vehicle at the time as they make mention of this. If so, who has it?

I would be writing separately to the hospital trust chairman and ask them why they are allowing their agents to ticket ambulances (that is what you are, despite not haveing crown immunity like those ones with blues and twos) and can you have a copy of their disabilites statement where it specifically mentions the disabled parking facilities and access arrangements as otherwise you will send a Statutory Questionnaire to formalise the request. Likewise you expect the Trust to cancel this claim and to explain where non-emergency vehicles the size of ambulances are supposed to park, bearing in mind they will be transporting people with disabilities. The chair is Nikki Cole and the exec director is Chris Brown

Now East Kent Hospitals trust has already lost a court claim against one of their own staff so I doubt if they want to engage in another public battle into the courts so let them know that you know this and tell them that you expect a response without delay as a POPLA appeal is going to cost their parking company money and that would be wasted if they are going to cancel the claim anyway.

Back to the POPLA appeal. GPEOL is still a valid reason but I would add a couple of other things, namely inadequate signage as by their own admission there are signs all over the place that lead to confusion as to what applies to where and hence the parking as it occurred and also the unlawful addition of administration charges under CPUTR which make the entire contract repugnant and thus void as those charges are supposedly part of the contract. Basically you are being asked to pay a fee when the protocols of the PoFA dont allow the parking company to make further demands as any response by you or the keeper would be within the allowed time. The charges are in any case a breach of the CoP that members of the BPA signed up to.

[Anubis1275]

Hi Erics Brother thank you for this.There was a windscreen ticket given, I have a copy of it but decided to wait until we receive the notice to hirer. I believe the timings of serving of the notice to be ok as this is a contract hire vehicle and so would have gone to the hire company first then sat at our head office for a while before finally being passed on to me.

 

I like the idea of writing to the trust regarding parking of large non emergency vehicles. We cannot be considered an ambulance by any means just a large minibus but we still have to park somewhere and normal car parking spaces just don't work.

 

Thank you very much again.

 

 

All Caggers have a good weekend

[armadillo71]

Have you read the Notice To Hirer closely?

 

'the opportunity to challenge the PCN has expired'

 

So you can't actually appeal it and must pay....

 

It will also be interesting which aos they try to use when you do appeal as hirer. PayMyPcn/SolutionLab are IPC ,

 

whereas East Kent Hospitals University NHS Foundation Trust are BPA....

 

I see a situation developing....

 

Could you post a redacted copy of the NTD please? It surely can't be POFA compliant and it is always good to see what is dished out.

[DragonFly1967]

I would suggest that as (as stated on the letter) PCN Parking Solutions are writing to you/acting on behalf of East Kent NHS trust, then they would be forced to use the BPA/POPLA route. They are after all, acting as mere agents of the trust

 

Any attempt to force you into using the IPC/IAS route should be rebutted with much vigor.

 

 

As armadillo has suggested, I can see this causing some upset, especially when the PPC don't get away with it

[Anubis1275]

Good morning Dragonfly, Armadillo,

 

I can post up a copy of the windscreen ticket Monday morning at the earliest Thank you all very much for this, it is a lot to think about so was thinking I would appeal as hirer demanding a POPLA reference then take it from there.

 

Thank you again

[armadillo71]

A bit sad, but I have been reading the POFA 2012 again....

 

I think your appeal should be that you are not liable for the charge. Have you received a copy of the hire agreement and copy of the NTK with the Notice To Hirer, as per the requirements of the POFA?

 

 

14(1)If—

 

(a)the creditor is by virtue of paragraph*13(2)*unable to exercise the right to recover from the keeper any unpaid parking charges mentioned in the notice to keeper, and

 

(b)the conditions mentioned in sub-paragraph (2) below are met,

 

the creditor may recover those charges (so far as they remain unpaid) from the hirer.

 

(2)The conditions are that—

 

(a)the creditor has within the relevant period given the hirer a notice in accordance with sub-paragraph (5) (a “notice to hirer”), together with a copy of the documents mentioned in paragraph*13(2)*and the notice to keeper;

 

(b)a period of 21 days beginning with the day on which the notice to hirer was given has elapsed; and

 

©the vehicle was not a stolen vehicle at the beginning of the period of parking to which the unpaid parking charges relate.

[ericsbrother]

Define what an ambulace is? I am not referring to a front line emergency vehicle that will have crown immunity for many things but a vehicle that is used for transport of others, particularly to hospital. when you make your representation you want to embarrass the life out of them not talk yourself down so use the word ambulance and not minibus because that was the purpose it was there for..

As for the ticket, tell us the date of the event and the date on the letter to keeper. It doesnt matter that it has taken a few days to pass on, that doesnt change the law so stop being nice about things, being nice to parking companies never gets you anywhere so say as little as is necessary and make them prove their case rather than trying to disprove their claim.

[Anubis1275]

Good morning,

 

Attached is a redacted copy of the windscreen ticket as promised. The date of 'contravention' was 12 May 15, the date of the notice to hirer says date of posting 02 Jul 15, I received on 08 Jul 15.

 

The provision of the POFA regarding supplying relevant documentation was one I had ready to add to the appeal, as none were received.

 

Thank you very much

[ericsbrother]

I read that they pass on the vehicle details to a third party to chase the keeper. This is not legal and a complaint to the DVLA should be made.. Now the water is muddioed if it is a hire or lease vehicle so you will probaly not get the chance to moan but if it was a private vehicle I would be demanding to know who had accessed my details without cause to do so. This needless to say takes time and probably wont get a proper answer let alone one in time to be helpful to your appeal so your arguments should be on

1. inadequate signage: the signage should be there for all to read at the entrance to the car park and signs that are applicable to parts of a larger area or refer to other signs are not unilateral contracts for offer but invitations to treat, which have no obligation on your part. So say that the signage was confusing and inadequate (and if the above bit applies then say it was not a contract but an invitation to treat)

2. GPEOL

3 Lack of contract between landowner and the party operating the parking scheme to make claims in their own name. (the parking management will undoubtedly be outsourced but the landowner is probably not the trust who signed the contract)