Election 2015: Conservative benefit cut options leaked

[citizenB]

Antbody watching End of the World Night?

 

 

When is that supposed to happen, determindator

[SabreSheep]

Also with new studies showing that people who are on Anti Virals and take them properly with an undetectable Viral Load it is Extremely Unlikely that onward transmission will occur.

 

http://www.aidsmap.com/No-one-with-an-undetectable-viral-load-gay-or-heterosexual-transmits-HIV-in-first-two-years-of-PARTNER-study/page/2832748/

 

The costs of treating 1 person with HIV is massively less than treating someone who is undiagnosed and suffers potentially life threatening complications who go on to infect many others. Most of the tme unaware they are infected. Already there is a growing trend in the US to use the new drugs to treat Patients on diagnosis and not wait till their cd4 count drops.

 

With the new scientific evidence in mind, Nigel Farages Desire not to treat migrants with HIV when they are already here is reckless and encourages HIV+ transmission.

 

Now does anyone have a slogan for that?

[Filcin]

Its a shame that UKIPs beloved leader's claims about immigrants with HIV are pure fantasy. He suggests that HIV infected immigrants come

here for free treatment. Not true, 48% of the immigrants with HIV contracted it in the UK and it costs every UK citizen less than 1p per year. Farage also doubled the figure of immigrants infected overseas. Perhaps we should save up and buy him an abacus.

 

 

Source - HIV 2014 report.

 

Nigel Farage has been round condemned by the commentariat for suggesting that treating foreigners for free on the NHS was not right and that we should, like 46 other countries, not admit foreigners who are HIV positive.

 

The cost for treatment for HIV positive patients is some £20,000 or more for anti-retroviral drugs every year. Once HIV treatment is started, patients will probably need to take the medication for the rest of their lives. In total, the cost to the NHS could be up to £1 million per patient if they survive into old age from their early twenties.

 

Of the 107,800 people estimated by Public Health England to be HIV positive an astonishing 59,300 are originally from Africa. The cost to the NHS to treat just them alone with anti-retrovirals would be £1,186,000,000 per annum – and the numbers are rising. Such is the alarm at the cost that 20 Tory backbenchers (including former NHS GPs Dr Sarah Wollaston and Dr Phillip Lee) tried unsuccessfully to amend the Immigration Bill to make it law that before new immigrants enter the country, they must prove they are not HIV-positive and not suffering Hepatitis B – an equally devastating illness that is also incredibly costly to treat. The same demand that Nigel Farage made and George Osborne refused “to dignify with a response“.

 

Go into any London NHS hospital and you will find them full with non-English speakers, truly London is the capital of the world. The taxpayers who pay for the NHS are not stupid, the issue of health tourism is one which NHS users will have direct experience of in the waiting room. The issue is a real issue according to the latest polling research Guido could find, with 29% of the population blaming health tourism for long waits at Accident and Emergency, ahead of any government policy failings:

 

The NHS budget is not yet part of the foreign aid budget, nor should it be. Despite the distaste of the political class, the screams of outrage from the gay lobby and the commentariat, the facts are the facts. On this billion pound question, Farage was right about the facts.

 

More

[SabreSheep]

Actually no.

 

Of the 107,800 people estimated by Public Health England to be HIV positive an astonishing 59,300 are originally from Africa

 

The fact is we do not know if they contracted the virus here OR not! Many cultural differences to sex and contraception explain this far better than assuming that all ethnic minorities turn up on our shores infected with HIV. Using a valid concern of healthcare expenditure to demonize immigrants and people living with the HIV

 

they must prove they are not HIV-positive and not suffering Hepatitis B

 

Not as easy as you think it is.

A HIV test (Accurate one) requires a 3 month window between tests and is only accurate if there is a 3 month period of zero risk. New instant tests exisit, but they are not accurate and require a confirmation test/ So does that mean locking all applicants up for 3 months?

 

not suffering Hepatitis B – an equally devastating illness that is also incredibly costly to treat. The same demand that Nigel Farage made and George Osborne refused “to dignify with a response“.

 

Again your source shows that it is not worthy of a response when peddling fear based on nonsense. Since when did Paracetamol become expensive. Take a look below at the NHS link for hep B

Your source would be more credible if it stated the correct illness. HEP C is the one that is incredibly hard to treat. HEP B has a vaccine that is inexpensive and available to all ages. However unfortunately statistics show that the majority of HEP C incidents are a result risky drug taking. Most of which I suspect happens whilst inside this country.

 

http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Hepatitis-B/Pages/Treatment.aspx

 

The NHS budget is not yet part of the foreign aid budget, nor should it be.

 

Agreed, but we are yet to see proof that the majority of HIV infected individuals get infected beyond our boarders. The United States used to operate a HIV = no entry to the country. EVEN they have now dropped that policy.

Therefore to say our NHS budget is being used as an extension of the foreign aid budget is unsupported scare mongering.

Canada is also another one that removed its restrictions.

 

Also have a read here

 

http://www.unaids.org/en/resources/documents/2009/20091001_jc1738_entry_denied_en.pdf

 

It raises a number of points including those that show that only 7 countries bar entry to HIV individuals.

Also the fact that to turn someone away purely on the basis of their HIV status violates the Human Rights Act.

 

Then lets throw in the problem of illegal immigrants. These will not be tested, will not receive treatment or education, remain infectious and continue to create new infections, including among legal immigrants that tested negative upon arrival. Considering homosexuality is a sin and illegal in many Nations abroad, it helps keep their activities underground and therefore increases infections in areas of Public Sex Environments where the legality of their residence is unchecked and behavior more risky.

 

The only point that is of some merit is that all immigrants should be tested. In fact, everyone should be tested in my opinion. Early testing and Early treatment and early education prevents infections and reduces further infections. The high cost now, is an investment on reducing new cases and future infection. Costs for the drugs will drop.

 

In all, both NF and your source are good at putting basic figures to a scare story and even confusing BASIC facts. Before listening to the music, one should maybe investigate their credibility.

Edited April 5, 2015 by SabreSheep
Spell check and evicting Piers Morgan

[estellyn]

Before the 2WW, the Nazis party blaimed everything on immigration and we all know where this led.

 

Ah yes the beloved UKIP who wants to bring an end to discrimination law so someone can say I'm not employing you because your black, a women, disabled or gay, regardless of if they are the best person for the job. Nice.

 

The reality is that UKIP don't care about immigrants, it's just their 'hook' to attract voters. The leadership are about business - getting out of the EU as they believe that the EU interferes with business in the UK making it harder to make profits. If you saw the UKIP manifesto before they changed it to 'immigrants are the cause of all ills', then you would see they are a right wing party of business, and anti protections for workers. The image they project, and the type of party they would be in government are very, very different.

 

Though for farage, I expect this is about power and money more than anything else - which makes him no different than other politicians.

[worried33]

interesting in the live debate the ukip appeared as a unlikely ally, when farage said his proposed cuts welfare wasn't in there, he also called it "social spending" instead of welfare meaning he doesn't agree with the current terms and even said he thought the tories cuts were targeted in the wrong place.

[id6052]

I recall their policy at ast election included:

 

Require those on benefits – starting with Housing and Council Tax Benefit recipients in private rented homes – to take part in council-run local community projects called ‘Workfare’ schemes. The schemes will be in addition to council jobs

So I would be unlikely to think of them as an ally

[determindator]

Seen this twice now thought i'd share, you may have seen:madgrin: On behalf of The Green Party

 

[Filcin]

That just shows what goons they are, just like their policies. They want the Army, Navy and the Airforce abolished, just how stupid can one get.

[SabreSheep]

That just shows what goons they are, just like their policies. They want the Army, Navy and the Airforce abolished, just how stupid can one get.

 

I suggest you re read their policy

 

NOT abolished, re purposed and cut in size.

 

Not the same as abolished with the implication of not being replaced with anything.

[citizenB]

And exactly how, do they expect to pay for all these ideas ?