@eonhelp E.On Trouble

[steviehowie]

Can I pull up the EON rep and Eversir,

 

 

cause both are misleading the consumer and it should be for the EON rep to tell the truth under SLC 25C.4 to be fair, honest, accurate ,

professional and not to mislead the consumer. Her earlier statement was wrong as noted so could she correct the information given to the consumer?

 

So EON rep is read every two under SLC 12.14, namely

 

Inspection of Electricity Meters

12.14 Unless the Authority otherwise consents, the licensee must take all reasonable steps to ensure that it inspects,

at least once every two years, any Non-HalfHourly Meter in respect of premises at which it has at all times during that period been the Relevant Electricity Supplier

 

or is it

 

21B.4) The licensee must take all reasonable steps to obtain a meter reading (including any meter reading transmitted electronically

from a meter to the licensee or provided by the Customer and accepted by the licensee) for each of its Customers at least once every year.

 

This paragraph does not apply in relation to any Customer with a Prepayment Meter.

 

Source: Electricity Act 1989 - Standard Conditions of Electricity Supply Licence

 

Eversir do you have a copy of this clause or a link to same?

Equally is it not correct to say SLC 21B.4 is pursuant to the Electricity Act 1989

as some of the Standard licence conditions also come under and or duplicated under,

the Electricity and Gas( internal Markets) regulations 2011.

 

or is it

Condition 21B. Billing based on meter readings

21B.1 If a Customer provides a meter reading to the licensee that the licensee considers reasonably accurate,

or if the Electricity Meter is read by the licensee, the licensee must take all reasonable steps to reflect the meter reading in the next Bill

or statement of account sent to the Customer.

 

21B.2 If the licensee considers that a meter reading provided by a Customer is not reasonably accurate,

the licensee must take all reasonable steps to contact the Customer to obtain a new meter reading from him.

 

Lets have the truth from EON representative or ptork66 has a legal case under SLC 25C.4 for misleading and inaccurate and dishonest information

from the energy company and EON are well known for such misleadings. lets see if they can tell the truth for once?

 

the law in the Uk requires that when a customer send meter readings to correct estimates that they must be used in the next bill SLC 21B.1.

[Eversir]

I'm not sure how you come to the conclusion that I was being misleading?

 

I was challenging the EON rep on the basis they claimed an energy supplier only has to read a meter once every two years (which is technically incorrect, for the reasons previously outlined).

 

Those paragraphs you quoted are not mutually exclusive of one another. That means all, some or none can apply depending on the individual situation.

 

You may want to re-read my post

[steviehowie]

Eversir,

 

 

As I understand you quoting SLC 21B.4 which I requested a link for (if you would be so kind or tell me the clause under UK law you are referring to), you appeared to have made the connection to pre payment meters. In my case , I assume there was no pre payment in the beginning when the debit alleged occurred.

 

 

The duty on EON not to mislead comes under SLC 25C.4 and that responsibility lies with EON.

I have asked the EON rep to correct the mis impression about reading every two years under SLC 12.14, when the customer has sent actual meter readings.

I do not have dates or frequency that such information was sent by the customer,

however if EON ignored the customers actual readings that's a breach of SLC 21B.1 or SLC 21B.2.

Only the customer will know which dates the meter readings were given and whether EON included these in the next bill.

 

That is something for the customer to consider with her knowledge of the matter .

[Eversir]

The source is quoted in the post:

 

Source: Electricity Act 1989 - Standard Conditions of Electricity Supply Licence

 

21B.4 was copied word for word, including the bit about prepayment meters. Obviously the part about prepayment meters doesn't apply in the OP's circumstances as the crux of the matter takes place before a prepayment meter was installed. So the energy supplier will have to take all reasonable steps to obtain a meter reading.

 

Again, not really sure why I'm the focus of your attack here, but it's getting a bit silly.

 

Until the OP updates the thread with more information, there isn't really a lot more to add. The EON rep will probably not be able to comment about an individual's account over a public forum and I sincerely doubt they would admit they have breached the terms of their supply licence anyway.

[Bazooka Boo]

Yep not helping the OP at all...

[steviehowie]

Hi Eversir,

My attack is on EON's mis information, not you sir. If Energy companies mis inform that against the law.

Thank you for the information . However I too have the SLC conditions which do not have SLC 21B.4 listed and as your refers to electronic transmission( smart meters), which suggest to me your SLC are later than mine?

So by posting a link to the Ofgem document it might be that you help the EON customer, go to that link and see more about all standard licence conditions ( old and new). Equally the EON rep could have done that at the outset and has not done so. It beg the question why?

Equally Standard Licence Conditions will update across the years and I am trying to make sure the SLC 21B.4 was applicable at the time the debit or meter readings occurred. Could you clarify for the customer the source of your 21B.4. and the year i.e. 2015 or provide the link to the Ofgem site/ licence conditions or the legislation itself?

Notwithstanding same the onus still rest with EON to be honest fair and accurate with a customer, public format or not and I believe they should correct the information the provided to the customer in a public forum.

And just for anyone else in the position with energy companies here is 25C for your information:-

 

Standard Licence Condition(SLC) 25C. ( pursuant to the Electricity Act 1989 and as amended by the Utilities Act 2000).

Condition 25C. Customer Objective and Standards of Conduct for supply activities

 

 

Application of standard condition

 

 

SLC 25C.1. Subject to paragraph 25C.6, standard condition 25C applies to all activities of the licensee and any Representative which involve, or otherwise relate to, dealings with a Domestic Customer.

 

 

Customer Objective

 

 

SLC 25C.2 The objective of this condition is for the licensee and any Representative to ensure that each Domestic Customer is treated fairly (“the Customer Objective”).

 

 

SLC 25C.3 For the purposes of this condition, the licensee or any Representative would not be regarded as treating a Domestic Customer fairly if their actions or omissions:

 

 

(a) significantly favour the interests of the licensee; and

 

 

(b) give rise to a likelihood of detriment to the Domestic Customer. Standards of Conduct

 

 

SCL 25C.4 The Standards of Conduct are that: (a) the licensee and any Representative behave and carry out any actions in a Fair, honest, transparent, appropriate and professional manner;

 

 

(b) the licensee and any Representative provide information (whether in Writing or orally) to each Domestic Customer which:

 

 

(i) is complete, accurate and not misleading (in terms of the information provided or omitted);

 

 

(ii) is communicated (and, if provided in Writing, drafted) in plain and intelligible language;

 

 

(iii) relates to products or services which are appropriate to the Domestic Customer to whom it is directed; and

 

 

(iv) is otherwise Fair both in terms of its content and in terms of how it is presented (with more important information being given appropriate prominence);

 

 

© the licensee and any Representative:

 

 

 

 

(i) make it easy for a Domestic Customer to contact the licensee;

 

 

(ii) act promptly and courteously to put things right when the licensee or any Representative makes a mistake; and

 

 

(iii) otherwise ensure that customer service arrangements and processes are complete, thorough, fit for purpose and transparent.

 

 

Compliance with the Standards of Conduct

SLC 25C.5. The licensee must take all reasonable steps to achieve the Standards of Conduct and ensure that it interprets and applies the Standards of Conduct in a manner consistent with the Customer Objective.

I exclude 25C.6

That is called helping a customer of EON not sure what other people negative contribution is all about. Lets have the truth from the energy companies . That's the obligation in law. Eversir , with your help you will provide the link to the SLC you refer to.

We have now listed in here SLC 12.14. 21B.1 and 21B.2, 21.B4, 25C. 1 to 5. That makes everyone more aware of the Energy companies obligations.

That in book is helping the EON customer.

Equally if the EON rep provided information in a public form it places a greater responsibility on her to correct the mis impression, as it is a breach of SLC 25C.4 whether EON admit that or not.

Nor is it unusual for an energy company to attempt to replace a meter with a pre payment meter when they do not have a magistrates warrant either and have turned up circuitously at the address .

Lets all be aware of the tricks energy companies play. I thank you for the link I am sure you will provided to SLC 21B.4.

StevieH

[Mike_hawk]

21B.4 is not retrospective and given its implementation date of 31st December 2014 I can't imagine it will assist the OP. It prescribes that either the customer or licensee can provide the read so I interpret that as compatible with the 2 yearly inspection at 12.14 'if' the customer has provided an accepted read. If no read is provided by the customer the onus falls on the licensee to ensure a read is obtained once a year....... the question remaining is 'what defines reasonable steps?'

 

I've attached a link to the consultation paper to provide a point of reference.... https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/270979/consultation_eed_articles.pdf

[Eversir]

21B.4 is not retrospective and given its implementation date of 31st December 2014 I can't imagine it will assist the OP.

 

Crikey, overlooked 21B.3 this time. Well done for spotting it Mike.

 

In sight of the fact these documents get updated fairly regularly, probably better to link to the main repository:

 

https://epr.ofgem.gov.uk/Document

 

Filter via:

 

Document Folders > Electronic Public Register > Licence Conditions > Standard Licence Conditions > Gas Supplier or Electricity Supply (as appropriate)

[Mike_hawk]

I have to be honest, my only interest in the slc's is a recent kerfuffle with SP, shower of s%#£ as they all seem to be.

 

I'm struggling to understand the OP's issue in this case, as far as I can determine it relates to 2 years of electricity only supply for a (albeit) small property of circa £1800.00. Without meter reads or something to rely on the £900.00 per year doesn't seem overly extravagant..... I'm reading the thread on my phone so may have missed something pertinent.

[steviehowie]

Some further thoughts on your problem.

 

 

When you took ownership of the property , why did you contract with EON, was it because the landlord recommended, did you shop around or what?

 

Later how did EON get access to your meter when the property is locked?

 

 

Your bills are high. Go through the bills carefully.

 

 

Look for transposed meter readings i.e day/ night readings the wrong way around.

Make sure meter readings follow on and there no gaps in the numbers of units noted in each bill.

Check the bills for readings say 10,000kWH E or 10000kWH C or 10,000kwh A

The E means estimate

The A means actual readings

the C means customer reading

 

 

Estimated readings are not important but actual meter readings are and so are customer. So are you bills based on estimates or actuals readings?

 

 

write down how you sent customer meter readings to EON , on the latest bill , by phone by email by letter etc?

 

 

You need to establish in the back billing period ( i.e when EON recalculated the Bill for 12 months) have EON omitted to take account of monies you made on account during that time, known as the bill reversal problem. This is not unusual with EON .

 

 

Write down the dates and amounts of monies paid on account then cross check these with EON re estimates of the last 12 months. Challenge if its wrong. EON play this game with customers.

 

 

Monitor you current consumption carefully. I assume your all electric?

 

 

Lights small in a 1/2 bedroom flat typically no more than 1 kW.

Small power, mostly TV/ stereo/ computer games etc, fridge, washing machine, kettle2/3 kw

Cooking electric say 6 kW

Immersion heater/ hot water anywhere between 3kW to 7kw depending on whether you have electric showers etc

heating all electric I assume? Is this off peak i.e night time supplied?

is there anything else special about your house or usage of electricity?

 

 

As way of example

Now a 1 kW heater on 365 x 24 hrs = 8760 hrs x 1Kw= 8760kWhr.In practice you will never have a fire on all year so you can cut this down.

probably less than 25% of the time so divide that 8760kWHr by 4. Try and be accurate with your times of use. the more accurate the more accurate your bill calculation.

 

 

Do similar calcs with your lighting, power, cooking, and hot water loads at least you will get a Kwhr fig to which you then can apply a day rate and a night rate so you can counter EON alleged bill. By the way EON cannot do these calculations I have seen it in writing from them, so their estimates are always way out.

 

 

 

 

one last thing take pics and video of your current meter. It would have been nice if you had done this with the meter which was replaced.

 

 

 

 

I am aware you financial situation will not lend to employing a solicitor so I recommend my essential reading list below. The more you read and understand the more you can get your chronological events sorted out I your mind.

If you come back to me I should be able to provide links if you are struggling.

 

 

By the way of moral support Christopher Poncelet v npower Ltd( 2010), look it up on the net, I believe he was a fell American.

 

1. The Electricity Act 1989. schedule 6 called the electricity code. On disconnection and Energy companies rights in a dispute. Also see schedule 7 as well on meters.
   

2. The Utilities act 2000 schedule 4 & 5 , this superseded schedule 6 of the Electricity act 1989 and also schedule 7.

3. The Electricity and Gas (Internal Markets) Regulations 2011 - see schedule 2 and 8.

4. 2008 No. 1898 The Gas and Electricity (Consumer Complaints Handling Standards) Regulations 2008

You appear to have started this process so at least be aware of the obligations on the Energy company. But customers do not have to follow it if the so wish, there are pros and cons both ways.

help is out there so don't get worried if unsure just ask the questions in the forum.

Trust this helps a little.

Stevie H

[ptork66]

Hi,

 

Thanks everyone for your thoughts and help.

 

I put off dealing with this further as we were on the prepayment meter, and that stopped everything, as we were paying both for usage and an amount towards the bill (though it somehow still seems to be creeping up?).

 

However, we've now moved out and into a shared house, so E.ON is no longer a priority debt for us as we have a different, current electricity bill to pay.

 

I just got the paycheck from my new full-time job, and, after rent/bills/food, we have 70p leftover each month.

 

I thought I would have £20 leftover to offer them (not that they'd take it) but the council tax bill was higher than I'd budgeted for - I am querying this on Monday.

 

This debt is not going to be going anywhere any time soon. I really am close to just going back home to the States.

 

We've now had a letter from E.ON to inform us that they are going to take start legal action.

 

With that plus the fact I now have a little bit of free time and energy left after work to hopefully deal with this once and for all, I'm back for - hopefully! - some more help.

 

Thank you so much in advance. I will do my best to be clear, involved, and answer any questions. I'll also be taking time off work to see/talk to who I must, such as the CAB, though they weren't very useful last time.

 

"When you took ownership of the property , why did you contract with EON, was it because the landlord recommended, did you shop around or what? The property was already with E.ON, and they showed up one day to take our names. I didn't really know you could shop around. Everywhere else I've lived previously, there's not a choice.

 

Later how did EON get access to your meter when the property is locked? The meters are in a communal cupboard outside of the building. It was either left unlocked or they had another tenant let them in.

 

 

Your bills are high. Go through the bills carefully. Yes, I know. I now have their estimated numbers from those years and recently + our actual usage as measured by the prepayment meter. The estimates are double the actual, but I don't know if would be possible to convince them to re-estimate their estimates and thus bring down the debt."

 

Look for transposed meter readings i.e day/ night readings the wrong way around. We did do that, and they weren't transposed.

Make sure meter readings follow on and there no gaps in the numbers of units noted in each bill. I will go through my bills to look for that. Thank you.

 

They're asking for a "full response". What all can I include in my "full response"?

 

Are there any charities I could apply to for some sort of grant towards the debt?

Edited December 5, 2015 by ptork66

[nottslad]

lots of water companies have trust funds that you can apply to.

 

If you have other debts you're struggling with you may want to consider some professional debt advice?

 

If you're considering going home to the US I wouldn't worry about the EON debt, it won't follow you!

 

It would be worth writing a letter of complaint to Tony Cocker (tony.cocker@eon-uk.com) and state you dispute the quantum of the debt and believe the previous estimates to be inaccurate - no harm in trying

[ptork66]

lots of water companies have trust funds that you can apply to.

 

If you have other debts you're struggling with you may want to consider some professional debt advice?

 

I/we don't have any other debts, but I am speaking with StepChange and CAB now/again.

 

If you're considering going home to the US I wouldn't worry about the EON debt, it won't follow you!

Yeah. But realistically I think running home to escape E.ON isn't going to happen, if only because I have my (British) husband to consider and also the fact I'm at the point of applying for UK citizenship - and I don't want my years here and the money I've spent on immigration to have been wasted. If I go home without citizenship, I'll have basically wasted my 20s. So, really, one way or another, E.ON has to be settled first before I make a decision on going home or not.

 

It would be worth writing a letter of complaint to Tony Cocker (tony.cocker@eon-uk.com) and state you dispute the quantum of the debt and believe the previous estimates to be inaccurate - no harm in trying

 

Thank you for that idea. I will definitely do that.