Car repo'd today because of previous owners Loans 2 go logbook loan

[neiltemple]

Hi everyone, looking for some help on where to go now!

 

My car was lifted by a logbook loan company today (Loans 2 go)

apparently the previous owner took out a log book loan on the vehicle in March 2013.

 

 

I bought the vehicle in May 2013 and had no correspondance sent from Loans 2 go to inform me that there was any outstanding finance on the vehicle.

The guy who was loading my car onto his truck was the first I knew about it.

 

I have spoken with Loans to go

they say there is a £3000 loan outstanding (original loan was £650)

and that I need to pay that to get the vehicle back.

 

 

However the guy that sold it to me had the logbook (must of applied for a duplicate as L2G have a log book in their possession)

and the check I did on my phone never flagged anything up as outstanding

(I have since learnt these checks do not include finance information).

 

 

I bought this car in good faith it was clean, he had a log book and all the numbers matched etc.

 

What can I do

who can I speak to to deal with this for me

anything I say to them falls on deaf ears.

 

 

We cannot afford a solicitor to deal with this

 

 

I also want to send them copies of the receipts for the parts we bought for the vehicle which we want back as legally I own them!!

 

Anyone know what I can do???

[theoldrouge]

Hi Neil and welcome to CAG

 

sadly this is becoming a common problem,

 

and there is not too much you can do

If a car is subject to a logbook loan, the loan company is the legal owner of the car until the loan is paid off in full.

 

If you buy a car that has a logbook loan on it and the person you bought the car from stops paying the money back,

 

the finance company can repossess the car and keep it until the debt is paid in full.

 

This applies even if you bought the car in good faith and did not know it had a logbook loan. The loan company does not need a court order to repossess the car

 

if you want the car back

 

 

you can negotiate with the lbl co to settle the outstanding loan, and then claim against the vendor

 

if you just want your money back, your claim would be against the vendor

 

did you ask to see the bill of sale when tha car was being taken?

[renegadeimp]

Was the loan registered correctly? A lot aren't and the cars are repossessed illegally/unlawfully.

[neiltemple]

Hi Oldrouge.

 

Yes the guy that took the car gave me a copy of the bill of sale and the vehicle repossession authorisation form.

 

 

I also have receipt that he has taken the car, but refused to sign it!

 

 

So I am stuffed without a car then

[neiltemple]

Hi renegadimp.

 

Yes it seems to have been done all legit.

 

 

They have the log book,

they did an address check to make sure he was a resident of where he said he was

(he has since left so they can't find him)

 

 

and have copies of his bank statements to prove he had income

and could "afford" the repayments.

 

 

I can't find anything that could null the agreement!

[theoldrouge]

if the bos was correctly registered

 

then your only options are as above I,m afraid

 

try to negotiate with the lbl co

 

and then try and find the vendor

 

check to see whether the lbl co are members of the CCTA

 

here is their code of practice

 

http://www.ccta.co.uk/content/bills_of_sale_code.aspx

[neiltemple]

Thanks for thr replies Rouge

 

 

already checked that and they are a member of the CCTA.

 

 

The vendor seems to have vanished from the face of the Earth

 

 

the Loan Company have been trying to find him for 18 months!

 

 

He doesn't live at the address he was at any more and

 

 

his phone numbers are now dead.

 

 

He has probably gone back to whatever country it was that he originally came from!

[obiter dictum]

I have been doing some digging into this in my spare time.

 

 

I believe their is a loop hole that the Bill of sale has to be registered in the high court within 7 days on signing to be effectual in law.

 

 

Without them registering within 7 days they are stuffed.

 

 

You will need to check with the high court to check the date the Bill of Sale was registered against the date on the finance agreement

 

http://www.statutelaw.gov.uk/content.aspx?LegType=All+Legislation&Year=1878&searchEnacted=0&extentMatchOnly=0&confersPower=0&blanketAmendment=0&sortAlpha=0&TYPE=QS&PageNumber=1&NavFrom=0&parentActiveTextDocId=1054646&ActiveTextDocId=1054658&filesize=4359

[neiltemple]

Thanks Cap, but again all done by the lbl co to the letter. The loan was given to the vendor on the 28th of March and the stamp on the Bill of sale from the court is dated April the 2nd!

[theoldrouge]

was the bos stamped, to check if registered

 

Contact Details

 

QB Enforcement Section

Room E15-17

Royal Courts of Justice

Strand

London

WC2A 2LL

DX 44450 Strand

 

Telephone: 020 7947 7772

Fax: 0870 324 0024

Email: QBEnforcement@hmcts.gsi.gov.uk

[neiltemple]

Yes it's stamped I have a copy of it in my hand.

[theoldrouge]

Thanks Cap, but again all done by the lbl co to the letter. The loan was given to the vendor on the 28th of March and the stamp on the Bill of sale from the court is dated April the 2nd!

 

sadly post #2 are your only options then

[neiltemple]

Thats what I thought! It sucks ass!! Lesson learnt not to use those cheap text checks and do a proper HPI in future!!

[theoldrouge]

yes I,m afraid the full and genuine hpi with gtee is the only way

[theoldrouge]

do try and negotiate with the lbl co

 

they are only interim authorised by the FCA at the moment, and are under severe scrutiny

 

and must apply for full auth early next year

 

so they will want to be seen as whiter than white at the moment

[obiter dictum]

Has the Bill of Sale been stamped within 7 days of signing the finance agreement by the High Court?

[neiltemple]

I will mate. Anyone know if I can ask for the parts we bought for the vehicle back if we have receipts to prove we bought them? We had to buy an injector, altenator, startermotor and a wing mirror for the vehicle while we owned it!

[theoldrouge]

I will mate. Anyone know if I can ask for the parts we bought for the vehicle back if we have receipts to prove we bought them? We had to buy an injector, altenator, startermotor and a wing mirror for the vehicle while we owned it!

 

use it as part of your negotiations

[dx100uk]

have you checked the witness to the bill of sale was NOT an employee

 

 

it must be an independent person.

 

 

dx

[neiltemple]

It was an employee it was their cashier.

 

 

But again its another myth an employee can sign as witness.

 

 

Infact there was a case in 2011 where Loans 2 go got taken to court for the same thing by the office of fair trading. See Below...

 

This subject of witnessing deeds was recently addressed within the context of bills of sale

by the Upper Tribunal (Administrative Appeals Chamber) in the case of Log Book Loans Ltd v Office of Fair Trading [2011] UKUT 280 (AAC)(1).

 

 

Specifically, the Upper Tribunal needed to decide whether a bill of sale was rendered void under the Bill of Sales Act 1878

and the Bill of Sales (1878) Amendment Act 1882 (the "Bills of Sale Acts")

in circumstances where the execution by the grantor of the bill of sale was attested by an employee of the grantee,

where the employee had negotiated, agreed and signed on behalf of the grantee (i.e. the lender)

the credit agreement between the grantor (i.e. the borrower) and the grantee.

 

 

Conclusion - The Upper Tribunal concluded (by a majority) that it is possible that an employee of a person

benefiting from the grant of a bill of sale could attest a signature.

[dx100uk]

bang balloon burst . thanks

 

 

dx

[neiltemple]

Tell me about it mate. I have had lots burst today!!

[theoldrouge]

Tell me about it mate. I have had lots burst today!!

For your info from the FCA

What we will do next

Given the evidence, this is a priority area to address.

 

As a small market with a few dominant players, we believe it is important that logbook lenders are quickly assessed, which is why we are requiring them to apply for full authorisation from 1 January 2015.

 

Logbook lenders that wish to continue providing logbook loans need to demonstrate how they meet our threshold conditions. These include conditions on suitability (including that a firm’s affairs are conducted in an appropriate manner regarding the interests of consumers) and on business models (including that the firm’s strategy for doing business is suitable for its regulated activities and that its business model is not exploitative of customers).

 

Firms that fail to meet our threshold conditions will be unable to satisfy the necessary authorisation standards and will not be allowed to continue trading in the market.

 

We will also respond to issues through our supervision and enforcement to ensure standards are maintained in the market.

 

We will take action where we find evidence of actual or potential consumer harm caused by firms not complying with legal requirements, our Principles for Businesses, or the conduct of business rules in our Consumer Credit sourcebook (CONC).

[Conniff]

As the car was sold knowing there was finance on it then that makes it theft, have your reported it to the police? If not, do so and get a crime number.

 

 

You have his name and the fact he has disappeared makes no difference, it will go onto the police computer so should his name need checking at some time in the future, even just a traffic check, this theft will come up.