overpayment of ctc

[23sopwith]

got letter from hmrc stating wed been o/p ctc

 

 

got married good Friday last year and

 

 

reported change in circs on april 26th

 

 

after returning from honey moon explained this to hmrc this am not good enough.

 

 

good Friday was 30/03 and was told we should have reported it then.

 

 

how many hmrc work good Friday or easter Monday.

 

 

am I being daft or unreasonable in thinking I may have been a couple of days late

and that the tax man is just being silly.

 

 

to be perfectly honest @58 widowed and remarried

I wasn't thinking about ctc reporting for a fortnight

 

 

.I am of course asking for a mandatory reconsideration.

 

I would be very gratefull for some advice as to how to proceed when the mandatory recon is declined;

 

 

I suppose if I owed them millions a couple of lunches would have cleared the matter up ok

but it appears being honest must be done on a bank holiday,

oh yes got a call from some dca about this but they don't count.

[blondebubbles]

If the change happened on 30/03/13 and you reported it on 26/04/14 then that's more than just a couple of days.

 

Anything paid as a single person from when you got married to when you reported it would correctly be classed as an overpayment. I assume you weren't living together before you got married?

 

Did you reapply as a couple? And if so what date was this claim started from (will show on awards notice)

 

They are open on Good Friday and Easter Monday (they only close Sundays, Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day).

 

I don't believe a mandatory consideration would be the route to do down. There is a dispute process for overpayments (simple case of filling out a form stating why you do not feel you made any error). There is further info on their COP26

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/leaflets/cop26.pdf

[23sopwith]

we weren't living together before we got married and reported the change in circs as soon as was possible and claimed as acouple from the date reported

were reawarded ctc and chb thereafter they did make an error however as they did not allow the 20 week rule regarding leaving school and going on to university. that got sorted out oct 2013. we were not aware that hmrc worked bank holidays and I wonder how many other people on this site do.

as far as the mandatory reconsideration we were advised to do this by hmrc yesterday, never told about this other method of dispute by hmrc, it appears that this is a technical exercise as we clearly qualify for the benefit so it appears they are going to take it away then give it back. Further why has it taken 18 months for them to realise that an overpayment had taken place

[blondebubbles]

There is no 20 week rule from going from school to uni.

 

The 20 week rule is for a child leaving school and registering with an approving body such as connexions or careers service. If a child is moving from school to uni then payments stop from 31st August.

 

http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/tctmanual/TCTM02230.htm

 

I don't see why the bank holiday is relevant. The bank holiday was 2 days (with them being open a non bank holiday in between) and it took you nearly 4 weeks to call?

 

You did not qualify for it after 30th March as you were no longer single. That is why you have been overpaid.

 

What you should have done was to ask for your joint claim to be backdated. This can be done for one month from the date they receive your claim rather than it starting from the date you reported it.

 

When you called to report the change initially, you would have been sent and award notice confirming the claim has ended. This would have told you only there was any overpayment. Did you get this award? And if so did it detail any overpayment?

[23sopwith]

Maybe we were at fault for not reporting our marriage soon enough but the tax credit people( obviously you work for them or another government department) should have adjusted the award once we had informed them not taken eighteen months to decide we had been overpaid. And NO for your information we did not live together before we were married and I resent the implication that we were dishonest as we told the tax credits about every single change that happened. They admitted they were at fault for stopping my child tax credits when I was still getting child benefit and have now decided that because we didn't tell them in enough time about the marriage we are to be penalised and have to pay it back. We have filled in two tax credits form since the marriage and they have had ample time to put this right before now. Also when they send you a letter demanding repayment there is no reason given on the letter you have to ring and then get passed from pillar to post before you are actually given the reason . Surely it would be a lot easier to state the reason on the letter asking for repayment and save me sitting on the phone for hours waiting for answers and it would free up people on the other end too making the department more efficient. As regard to the child benefit. Because my daughter's 18th birthday was the 31st August the child benefit office agreed I was entitled to child benefit for her from when she left school in may until her birthday and duly back dated it for me.

[blondebubbles]

No I don't work for them (thank god).

 

I did not say you were dishonest. I asked a simple question to establish what the position of your claim was before marriage. If you had already been living together before the marriage then your marriage would not have affected your claim.

 

When you reported the change your single claim would have been stopped. You would then have been overpaid for around 4 weeks. If the overpayment is more than this then there must be another reason.

 

They cannot take the overpayment from your single claim back from your new joint claim as it was not your new partners debt. Although I have read there are plans to change this.

 

I have made no comments regarding your child benefit. I have only commented on tax credits. The issue with your child's education status has nothing to do with the OP into your overpayment. You stated this was simply due to the delay in notifying them of your marriage.

 

As for their letters, I have read many people on this forum (and others) complaining about them. They don't seem interested in changing this.

 

I have asked you questions to try and establish what exactly has happened in your case hence asking about the award letter when you reported the change and what date your joint claim was started. If you had answered the questions I may have been able to offer more advice.

 

You asked what to do if your mandatory reconsideration was declined. I have explained there is a dispute process and provided you with a link that explains it in more detail.

 

However given that you seem to only want to argue or have someone agree with you I see no reason to help further. Good luck.

[23sopwith]

thanks for replies the forms you pointed out clearly state that you must report various changes within 1 month one of them being marriage or civil partnership we difd claimed as couple what are hmrc up to

[blondebubbles]

You have to call within 1 month to avoid a penalty.

 

However this does not stop an overpayment from occurring. The system is calculated to the day the change happened.

 

You could include this argument in any dispute you make.

[23sopwith]

sent appeal letters to both tco and recovery dept turns out that one of post codes ie, recoveries is a geographical code so could be anywhere in country

currently its in bradford

[23sopwith]

Further to the above post received a letter which stated that in the writers opinion I was out of time to both appeal and dispute. the decision letter was dated 30/08/2014 appeal and dispute was sent and signed for within 7 days of receipt of their renewed decision.

yesterday received formal demand for payment, after 30 mins hanging on the phone got through to "gus" who said they had no record of receipt of the letters yet I have the electronic signatures from the barcodes on the recorded delivery.

It appears im getting nowhere rapidly with this mob... Can I SAR HMRC and does it still cost £10.00

I had to laugh yesterday when HMRC agreed it was ok for a dca who they had appointed to ring 8 times a day in an attempt to recover the overpayment, and he also tried to get me to set up a payment plan, when I agreed to repay it back over 5 years as stated in cop26 he was taken aback, and said he couldn't possibly agree to that.......happy days

[blondebubbles]

An appeal would not be appropriate in this circumstance.

 

An example of an appeal would be if you tried to claim the disability element and they refused it, you can appeal it.

 

A dispute is the correct action as I suggested before. The overpayment is valid but you are looking to prove the error is not yours. This needs to be done within 3 months of the final decision letter.

 

Recovery action continues even when disputing. Did they ask about your income and expenditure when you offered 5 years?

 

Yes a SAR can be made and there is no charge for this with HMRC

[Mr.P]

I had to laugh yesterday when HMRC agreed it was ok for a dca who they had appointed to ring 8 times a day in an attempt to recover the overpayment.

 

Errrmmm.... Eight times a day is harassment, plain and simple. A short letter (preferably sent recorded delivery) to the DCA instructing them that all communication is to be in writing only, and further telephone harassment will be reported to the relevant authorities. If they persist, you also reserve the right to take legal action. See Harrison v MNBA and Ferguson v British Gas for inspiration (I'm sure others can post details of similar cases).

[23sopwith]

all ready been done and inland revenue informed of same, they don't give a monkeys, however if I owed the 20 million I bet I wouldn't be getting these phone calls "a friend" I hope would have stepped in by now

[Mr.P]

Report the DCA to the OFT and FCA, then if you have funds available, take legal action to put a stop to the harassment.

Keep a log of all calls received.

[23sopwith]

been to cab they agree sar best way forward ive got template letter but am not sure which docs to apply for, should I ask for everything including app. forms all receipts, dates of phone calls and every intervention made by them to include all letters and how they came to their conclusion, all help gratefully acceppted

[Mr.P]

Ask for everything. Adding to your list, telephone calls recorded, and transcripts of any calls not recorded.

[blondebubbles]

It is actually easier to get the helpline to tell you t reason for the overpayment before deciding what to ask for.

 

As well as the above, request copies of all awards issued for the year in question (this can be done via the helpline, the rest cannot) along with details of when the notice to pay letter was issued and any other demands for repayment.

[23sopwith]

here we go again hmrc have started taking money from our current tax credits and they have also extended into next years credits, they have presumed next years earnings and are taking an appropriate amount from next years amount.

sent sar requesting everything including all that was suggested, 40 days up in 8 days, rossendales have now reared their ugly heads acting on behalf of hmrc with their usual blurb and threats, oh how I "owed" the 20,000,000 and not as they state £750 brought abought by their error

[Mr.P]

You can politely (or not) instruct Rossendales where to go, and if they struggle to understand basic directions, provide a map. If HMRC are already engaged in recovery, the DCA can go and....