Blue badge fell off **Challenge allowed, ticket cancelled**

[spb1957]

Hiya guys

Posting this for a neighbour who's today received PCN for parking on a DYL (01-Parked in a restricted street during prescribed hours)

Familiar story that the blue badge fell off the dashboard. The badge belongs to his wife (yes, she was with him)

Ticket was issued in Biggin Lane , Hitchin opposite the market, vehicle parked wholly on the road, not up on the kerb.

I've had a look at his PCN as well as on Google maps at the location and can't see any errors in the issuing of the ticket.

My feeling is that he can only appeal with the facts and hope they are a sympathetic council (not holding breath), but also that there's no harm in running it by you more knowledgeable lot than myself

Thanks

[Jamberson]

I'd say you are correct.

 

Assuming no faults with the PCN etc, then all he can do is explain in an appeal letter and hope for leniency. The fact is, the vehicle was on yellow lines without displaying the badge, so that's a contravention. Hopefully the Council will be reasonable about it.

 

When he appeals he should keep it polite and apologetic, and include a photocopy of both sides of the Blue Badge.

 

If you want to post more details here, eg a scan of the PCN, please do.

[spb1957]

Well, I decided to 'challenge' the PCN on behalf of my friend online, and today he's come back to me with his rejection letter, which was expected.

I do note however that at the end where it says "You have these choices" the first option says......

 

'We will reconsider your case if you send us both sides of your disabled badge. You need to do this within 14 days of the date of this letter'

 

....which is the 15/08/2014.

 

Anybody know if this will put the 14 day time frame on hold again ? I have some concerns that if they take 10-12 days to reconsider that I may end up costing him the full rate before we get payment back to them if not (assuming they do reject it again). Does give some hope though otherwise they wouldn't have made it an option.

[green_and_mean]

I'm slightly confused? You say you got a rejection but at the same time they asked for the badge details which you were advised to send in your reps, why didn't you follow the advice given?

[Jamberson]

They'll hold it when they receive your letter/photocopies, and it will stay held until they deal with it. Assuming the blue badge is all correct, sounds like you're heading for a cancellation.

[green_and_mean]

They'll hold it when they receive your letter/photocopies, and it will stay held until they deal with it. Assuming the blue badge is all correct, sounds like you're heading for a cancellation.

 

 

Probably would have been cancelled already if he had listened to you original advice!

[spb1957]

For the sake of speed and convenience I made the challenge online, quoting the badge number

[green_and_mean]

For the sake of speed and convenience I made the challenge online, quoting the badge number

 

I appreciate that but some of us on here have years of experience of these things so if we suggest something its usually for a reason for example in this case anyone can get a blue badge number by looking at a badge on display in a car. However in this case it was only the informal reps so no harm done, just get the badge sent off and you are more than likely going to get it cancelled.

[spb1957]

Just had a visit from my neighbour. North Herts District Council have decided "on this occasion" to allow the challenge and have cancelled the PCN.

Nice to know that they can accept that these things do happen and that they are not mercenary with their decisions.

[TheBogsDollocks]

Good that it was cancelled but this is mostly due to councils knowing that adjudicators are very reluctant to dismiss appeals when a valid blue badge is held even if it was not displayed. This is why councils often seek a copy of the badge. They don't need to seek a copy they could just ask for the badge holders name and address or the badge reference number. This is enough for them to make enquiries as to whether a valid badge is held. The reason why they ask for a copy is because they know that lots of people won't go to the trouble of copying and posting and this then justifies any further council rejection. If the case then goes before an adjudicator the council can argue that discretion would have been applied if only the un-cooperative badge holder provided a copy when asked. It makes the holder look bad and the council look good. Tactics!

[Jamberson]

Good that it was cancelled but this is mostly due to councils knowing that adjudicators are very reluctant to dismiss appeals when a valid blue badge is held even if it was not displayed. This is why councils often seek a copy of the badge. They don't need to seek a copy they could just ask for the badge holders name and address or the badge reference number. This is enough for them to make enquiries as to whether a valid badge is held. The reason why they ask for a copy is because they know that lots of people won't go to the trouble of copying and posting and this then justifies any further council rejection. If the case then goes before an adjudicator the council can argue that discretion would have been applied if only the un-cooperative badge holder provided a copy when asked. It makes the holder look bad and the council look good. Tactics!

 

That's not how I see it. The problem isn't the existence of the badge - anyone could note down a name and badge number of a relative or someone, and use it in appeals. The issue is proving they have access to, and use of the badge - ie they have it in their hand and can take a copy of it. Councils are generally pretty fair when it comes to equalities, and I believe that they often cancel in BB situations on principle of fairness. My council would send out a copy of the blue badge handbook and an explanation of why the PCN was issued with their cancellation letters. It's not fear of adjudicators which motivates that.

[TheBogsDollocks]

If the badge reference number is provided it is then possible for the council to see if the badge relates to the person appealing. For example, in the case above, the appellants surname and address matches that of a badge holder so the reasonable conclusion is that the appeal is most likely truthful. Nothing is gained in this scenario by asking for a copy of the badge.

 

 

The exemption applies if the vehicle is being used to transport a badge holder. A copy of the badge does not show that the vehicle was being used to transport a badge holder. If the council needs to ask for anything it is confirmation from the badge holder that the vehicle was being used to transport them.

[Jamberson]

You assume that the staff working on PCN appeals have access to the Blue Badge database, which contains personal information such as dates of birth, medical details, names of spouses and so on. That sort of data is covered by the data protection act and it's quite likely that those in the appeals team cannot access it. (And neither should they be able to in my opinion.)

[TheBogsDollocks]

They won't have direct access but I know that parking staff communicate with the blue badge staff frequently to confirm entitlement or to detect fraudulent use. The DPA is followed when doing so.

[Jamberson]

It might be for fraud (I've no idea) but they can't access it directly. The onus is on the appellant to show them.

[TheBogsDollocks]

My understanding is that parking email the blue badge people giving the name and address of the person claiming to be a badge holder and ask for confirmation whether the person hold's a valid badge.

[green_and_mean]

Interesting debate however totally irrelevant since the person who got the PCN didn't own a blue badge it was his wifes badge. If you think that if you send in the name of someone you know that owns a badge then the Council should just cancel you are crazy! By supplying a copy of the badge at least the owner of the badge will more likely be aware you are using it as an exemption for a PCN and could refuse if their details are being used fraudulently.

[TheBogsDollocks]

A name is not enough, I never said it was. I know from discussing this with those who work and some who still work in local govt that a copy of the badge is not essential.

 

 

Each council has its own way of working though and some may require a copy but those I've spoken to say that there are so many fraudulent copies out there that a copy by itself proves nothing. If you have a name and address you can check to see if a badge was actually issued to the name and address. If the challenge comes from someone other than the badge holder then the badge holder can be asked to confirm in writing whether on such and such a date and time a vehicle was being used to transport them.