Daughter being conned big time.

[kken67]

I hope I can explain this easily.

 

Basically my daughter was persuaded to leave her part time job with a large high street shop.

Her boss wasn't particularly nice and ridiculed her for her dyslexia. A person we have known for a number of years has her own beauty salon and knew my daughter ( a trained beauty therapist) was unhappy and asked her if she would work for her in the salon and she would make sure she had as many hours, 16.

 

So my daughter resigned and moved to the salon. Then the real problems started! The owner decided that she needed her to refresh her skills for a fortnight first before she would start paying her. Then said she would get half the treatment cost and the salon the other half. Then, changed again to say the therapists would get paid £6.50 per treatment hour.

 

What this means is that my daughter goes in 10-5, 5 times a week but in a day often does the equivalent of 3 hours per day treatment. It is not as if she can leave the salon as the owner expects her to answer the phone or clean the treatment rooms. The owner has not asked my daughter for her p45, national insurance no or anything. She has now been at the salon for about 6 weeks.

 

A week or so ago, my daughter was admitted to hospital with a severe kidney infection and spent 6 days on intravenous drips. She asked me to ring the salon owner and ask if there were and sick pay arrangements. The owner promptly rang my daughters mobile (in hospital) and started going mad at her saying at 22 she was too old to ask her mum to ring about her work life, that she wasn't employed as she was on a zero hours contract and that if i interfered again she would let my daughter go.

 

My daughter only asked me to ring because in hospital her mobile signal was intermittent. She has been out for a few days now and gone back to the salon as she is terrified she would not be able to claim jsa if she walks out. I worked out that my daughter has effectively been working for less than £2 per hour.

 

This woman is also taking untrained girls in off the street and telling them that because they are on zero hours contracts they can claim jobseekers aswell which i know is illegal.

 

These poor girls are going to be in so much trouble when the jobcentre figures things out. The salon is literally 200m from the jobcentre. I dont know how to help my daughter as she has been badly manipulated but feels trapped. Any advice?

Edited July 2, 2014 by maroondevo52
formatting

[leonmassey]

Just divide her wage by the hours worked and if it's less than minimum wage report the salon owner.

[Sidewinder]

In slightly more detail I completely agree!

 

Oh dear this sounds awful, and as with all such problems, what are you (or your daughter) prepared to do? You don't say how long she has been working there, but:-

 

1. Your daughter is entitled to be paid at least the NMW for her age for every hour that she is required to be on the premises, so for the hours between 10 and 5 (less any break time) she must be paid.

2. A zero hours contract means very little and certainly does not get around Point 1. All a ZHC means is that there is no obligation on either side either to offer work, or where it is offered, for it to be accepted. These sorts of practices are precisely why the issue of ZHCs needs legislation to protect workers

3. A ZHC contract DOES mean that she is employed so long as the relationship is not on a self-employed basis, so if the employer provides payslips and makes deductions (although at those rates she will not be meeting tax thresholds) then she will be 'employed' (and certain other tell tale factors which are easily established). Your daughter will also be entitled to accrued holiday for all hours worked

4. Your daughter must not claim Jobseekers or any other benefit on the basis that she is not employed - she should discuss the nature of her employment, earnings and leave it to the JC as to whether she is entitled to any particular benefit. It will be your daughter and not the employer who gets clobbered for fraud!

5. the fact that no NI or tax details have been taken suggests that your daughter is working 'off the books' and once again SHE will be liable as and when HMRC find out - which they will if there is a significant gap in employment for example.

 

As to how to fix it - the hard part and where the question of how ruthless you want to be.

 

Firstly, get another job lined up - easy to say I know, but this WILL end in tears! Then:-

 

1. Tell the JC what the employer said about still signing on.

2. Tell HMRC that the employer seems to be employing your daughter off the books, she feels uncomfortable and is worried that she has not been asked for her tax details etc and you want to clarify the situation and pay any tax that may be due

3. Contact the Pay & Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368 - you will be able to reclaim what should have been paid if it is established that the employer has broken the law - there is more guidance here https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/what-is-the-minimum-wage

 

The employer could be looking at a criminal investigation - and almost certainly a significant cost to put things right

 

As for sick pay, there is no automatic entitlement - I doubt whether the employer has contractual sick pay, so it would be down to SSP. There are qualifying periods and eligibility criteria and it may be that the (falsely calculated) earnings would bar your daughter from being paid this, however it will almost certainly also be the case that this employer would be worried that the issue of SSP could uncover the apparent lack of proper payroll and tax records for the staff working there, hence the outburst.

 

Without wishing to appear rude, it would also be useful for your daughter to ask for advice herself if possible (notwithstanding the dyslexia) rather than relaying it all through mum. On that point, although there were clearly good reasons which the employer should have considered as to why mum was contacting them over reporting sick, I would agree that at 22 it would be unusual to be dealing with a parent on that matter.

[Emmzzi]

If you are on zero hours, and get less than dole money would pay out at, you can still sign on for the difference. So this bit might not be totally untrue, it depends!

[kken67]

In slightly more detail I completely agree!

 

Oh dear this sounds awful, and as with all such problems, what are you (or your daughter) prepared to do? You don't say how long she has been working there, but:-

 

1. Your daughter is entitled to be paid at least the NMW for her age for every hour that she is required to be on the premises, so for the hours between 10 and 5 (less any break time) she must be paid.

2. A zero hours contract means very little and certainly does not get around Point 1. All a ZHC means is that there is no obligation on either side either to offer work, or where it is offered, for it to be accepted. These sorts of practices are precisely why the issue of ZHCs needs legislation to protect workers

3. A ZHC contract DOES mean that she is employed so long as the relationship is not on a self-employed basis, so if the employer provides payslips and makes deductions (although at those rates she will not be meeting tax thresholds) then she will be 'employed' (and certain other tell tale factors which are easily established). Your daughter will also be entitled to accrued holiday for all hours worked

4. Your daughter must not claim Jobseekers or any other benefit on the basis that she is not employed - she should discuss the nature of her employment, earnings and leave it to the JC as to whether she is entitled to any particular benefit. It will be your daughter and not the employer who gets clobbered for fraud!

5. the fact that no NI or tax details have been taken suggests that your daughter is working 'off the books' and once again SHE will be liable as and when HMRC find out - which they will if there is a significant gap in employment for example.

 

As to how to fix it - the hard part and where the question of how ruthless you want to be.

 

Firstly, get another job lined up - easy to say I know, but this WILL end in tears! Then:-

 

1. Tell the JC what the employer said about still signing on.

2. Tell HMRC that the employer seems to be employing your daughter off the books, she feels uncomfortable and is worried that she has not been asked for her tax details etc and you want to clarify the situation and pay any tax that may be due

3. Contact the Pay & Work Rights Helpline on 0800 917 2368 - you will be able to reclaim what should have been paid if it is established that the employer has broken the law - there is more guidance here https://www.gov.uk/national-minimum-wage/what-is-the-minimum-wage

 

The employer could be looking at a criminal investigation - and almost certainly a significant cost to put things right

 

As for sick pay, there is no automatic entitlement - I doubt whether the employer has contractual sick pay, so it would be down to SSP. There are qualifying periods and eligibility criteria and it may be that the (falsely calculated) earnings would bar your daughter from being paid this, however it will almost certainly also be the case that this employer would be worried that the issue of SSP could uncover the apparent lack of proper payroll and tax records for the staff working there, hence the outburst.

 

Without wishing to appear rude, it would also be useful for your daughter to ask for advice herself if possible (notwithstanding the dyslexia) rather than relaying it all through mum. On that point, although there were clearly good reasons which the employer should have considered as to why mum was contacting them over reporting sick, I would agree that at 22 it would be unusual to be dealing with a parent on that matter.

 

Hi and thanks for the advice. Just to clarify, I do try to encourage my daughter to deal with things herself but (probably due to her dyslexia) she does find it very difficult to deal with official paperwork and legal stuff. I only rang through because she was unable to do so but the owners reaction appeared to me one of panic because she realised I had sussed out what she is up to. My daughter worked 70 hours over a fortnight and was paid just short of £150 for 'treatment hours'. She doesnt get a payslip or anything. Just an envelope with no of treatment hours on the front and the money. She is actually one of the very few trained beauty therapist in there. The staff turnover is a joke because as soon as anyone queries anything they are 'let go'. I have a colleague who works for young persons connexions and she was aware my daughter was unhappy in her old job and that this salon owner was persuading her to move but advised her against it. However, my daughter thought things couldnt be as bad as working for someone who took every opportunity to put her down for her dyslexia. My daughter actually has the equivalent of 6 grade A A levels as she got triple distinctions in both her BTEC courses. She worked incredibly hard to achieve those grades but this 'supermedicine' boss just kept saying how the hell did you manage that and if she made an error, would say to customers 'bless her, she is dyslexic', I will deal with you.

I agree that we need to help her find something else and I am going to encourage her to contact the relevant bodies to sort this 'lady' out.

The other girls are doing similar hours, doing treatments they arent qualified to do and told to sign on aswell as the owner says they arent employed because they are on a zero hours contracts. They are often very young and gullible and the owner is very convincing.

[SabreSheep]

She also needs to keep proof of what hours she actually attended and "worked

[steampowered]

There is an employment tribunal claim here for minimum wage backpayments (including for time at the training), unfair dismissal off the back of that, 2-4 weeks' pay for the employer not providing a written statement of employment particulars and I'm sure several other things. It would add up to quite a tidy sum, though would need a fair bit of determination to see it through.

[SabreSheep]

There is an employment tribunal claim here for minimum wage backpayments (including for time at the training), unfair dismissal off the back of that, 2-4 weeks' pay for the employer not providing a written statement of employment particulars and I'm sure several other things. It would add up to quite a tidy sum, though would need a fair bit of determination to see it through.

 

 

Not sure the subject has 2 years service which rules out unfair dismissal

[steampowered]

Not sure the subject has 2 years service which rules out unfair dismissal

Unfair dismissal for claiming the NMW is exempt from the 2 years service requirement (http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1996/18/section/104A)

[SabreSheep]

Thanks for that. Always like to be proved wrong to learn something new