Proportionality and positive Discrimination

[obiter dictum]

In peoples opinions, do you think all women shortlists as to reserved seats is discriminatory. I can understand the principle, take a trade Union hierachy as to positions. They tend to be white, middle aged and male. If both the male and female candidates are equally qualified, why should the female take precedence and the male candidate withdraw, even if the female role is not equal to the male?

 

I put forward this scenario as well, do you have to be Gay to work in an equality role, or non white just because they are unerepresented as a specific tital. Why stick a lable on someone, the very thing equality strives to eliminate.

 

Trade unions are there to ensure equality, my argument is that women should be encouraged to take part in an organisation, but not jump into reserved seats because of your sex. That stinks of cronyism

 

No Racist, sexist or homophobic response please, serious question

[richard_se11]

According to the OED cronyism means: “The appointment of friends and associates to positions of authority, without proper regard to their qualifications”.

 

How can it stink of cronyism if it is doing the opposite and getting away from the jobs or the boys attitude and removing the barriers to people who have been discriminated against in the past?

 

How many female MPs are there in Parliament compared to male; and how does that correspond to the England and Wales male/female breakdown?

 

 

Doesn't it really make you mad that there's a glass ceiling for those who aren’t white middle class men?

[obiter dictum]

Cronyism- Old Boy Network-Reserved seats

 

Why do we have that culture of a sitting tenant mentality on positions that are Male, white dominated. Why are we not tackling that culture without discrimination of a section of society.

 

Take our membership of the EU and Discrimination laws, the CJEU considers that positive discrimination as a derogation as to the equal treatment of men and women. Considering the CJEU is the primary source of law within the 28 member states, how can UK institutions instigate a policy of proportionality contrary to EU law

[SuperVillain]

In your example where you have an equally qualified man and woman applying for the same job. I would suggest it isn't positive discrimination to employ the woman. They're equally qualified.

 

To me positive discrimination would be, e.g. the female candidate was slightly less qualified than the male candidate, but was offered training to get the qualifications and then employed on the basis she gains them in 6 months, thereby overlooking the male candidate. Replace the word female with black/asian/gay etc, the situation is still the same - positive discrimination in my view.

 

But surely you've answered your own question anyway. If it is a culture of white middle aged male candidates taking up the roles you refer to, then culture doesn't change overnight. And sometimes it doesn't change at all without a little helping hand.

 

So employing the equally qualified woman instead of the man is taking a step to changing the culture. If you just employ the man the culture doesn't change and the status quo remains - I mean look at it this way - if you picked the man for the job what would your reason for doing so be? They're both equally qualified - is it just because he's a man? In which case it is also potentially discriminatory.

 

Changing culture can be done without positive discrimination, as you suggest, when people are genuinely employed on merit.

[obiter dictum]

Diversity is strogly supported when and only when it equals merit. It is important that people especially from ethnic minorities who may not be able to bear the strain of the role their position do not find themselves failing because to much enthusiasm for diversity, and not enough on merit.

[SabreSheep]

I think its important to recognise how in some cases discrimination can occur.

 

Why are top women in jobs less likely. One of them is down to service. If A Women has a child or more they leave the workforce for a while and do not accrual the same level of experience and service a non pregnant Women did or a Gentlemen.

 

If job selection hinges on length of service or anything to do with it then the Women is at a disadvantage and this is where positive discrimination and positive action comes in to redress the balance.

Similarly with disability discrimination those who suffer a disability have all sorts of barriers that can lead them being discriminated indirectly.

 

Lawful positive discrimination is about readdressing the balance so those disadvantaged and under represented can get an equal chance.

 

HOWEVER

 

Like everything It has to be measured and used carefully. Positive discrimination can lead to unlawful discrimination if done incorrectly.