Car theft - insurance didn't pay

[veganite]

Hello Jamie,

 

Excellent news, thank you! I suspect that without you & CAG, I would be without the settlement.

 

Thanks again for all your help and apologies for being persistent asking continually for updates etc.

[JoeyJoeC]

Veganite, did you manage to settle at a more accurate figure in the end?

[unclebulgaria67]

Hello Jamie,

 

Excellent news, thank you! I suspect that without you & CAG, I would be without the settlement.

 

Thanks again for all your help and apologies for being persistent asking continually for updates etc.

 

Glad you have managed to resolve. Money will probably come in handy paying for winter fuel. I don't know how people live in places where it is so cold for 8 months of the year.

[veganite]

Veganite, did you manage to settle at a more accurate figure in the end?

 

No. My personal valuation of the car was quite high because the car had been in the family since new and had been looked after. I did send Hastings links to cars at todays prices and they increased their offer by around £300 ish... which matches todays prices.

The guide they used was from 2007? or from when the car was stolen.

 

I did send in full service history and receipts for work done. From what I remember, I had complete set of new tyres about 2 or 3 weeks before the car was stolen.

[veganite]

Glad you have managed to resolve. Money will probably come in handy paying for winter fuel. I don't know how people live in places where it is so cold for 8 months of the year.

 

I am not in Russia now, I am just there for a few months each year and avoid the winter. One experience of winter and -24 made me decide it is not the place I should be!

 

But money is handy for winter fuel as you say, I've decided to use the money and buy solar panels, invertor and controller for parents house, a DIY project.

 

I can not justify buying a replacement car from the insurance money because the insurance is expensive for me now because the delay in settlement had caused me to lose my no claims bonus, making insurance premiums expensive for me.

[veganite]

For anyone stumbling across thread through search, if you are waiting for an insurance company to pay a settlement and you are not satisfied with the time involved in payment, then post number 4 in this thread provides very good advice: http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?430756-Order-for-specific-performance

 

I didn't need to follow the advice as Hastings are paying the settlement, but it is good advice for others.

[veganite]

Hello (yet again) Hastings / Jamie,

 

This matter is still not resolved. Whilst you have transferred money into the bank account, the money transferred seems to be payment for the first settlement figure and not the increased settlement figure which was agreed upon after I had sent you detailed information (links) to same car being sold this year.

 

Is there any reason why you have transferred a lower amount other than the amount which was agreed upon?

 

I am not willing to wait any longer for this matter to be resolved. If this matter is not resolved by the end of this week, then it will be my intention to proceed through the small claims court and claim a nominal amount of money (£100) to represent the inconvenience.

 

I don't wish to appear rude but your lack of communication is absolutely ridiculous. Now having experienced money transferred into the account which is below the money which had been agreed upon just adds to the farce this claim is.

 

I reiterate that should this matter not be resolved by the end of this week, then legal action will be initiated against yourselves with no further reference to yourselves.

[Hastings Direct. Joe - Soc]

Hi veganite,

 

Thank you for once again updating the thread, I will urgently look into this and ensure that this is corrected if the incorrect amount has been transferred.

 

Many Thanks,

Jamie

[veganite]

After speak with Hastings yesterday, they said that they would send me email concerning the incorrect amount. Needless to say email was not received yesterday as stated.

 

However, email was received today.

 

Dear xxxxxx,

I understand there was an error with the payment that you received. I would like to offer my sincere apologies for this and to inform you that I am upholding this complaint point. I have raised the additional £230.00 today. I would like to offer £25.00 as compensation for the inconvenience that you have experienced as a result of this error. The payment should be with you by close of business on Monday, 18th August 2014.

 

 

The complaint concerning incorrect payment appears to be sorted out (although I do need to check the exact amounts).

 

Other complaints were not upheld by Hastings.

 

Thank you again to Jamie the Hastings rep for sorting this out. I suspect that without CAG and the Hastings rep, then my claim would be no further forward than it was at the start of 2007!

[JoeyJoeC]

Jamie, this is terrible service from your company. You only offered £25 for the trouble?

 

*You meaning Hastings Direct.

[veganite]

Hello again Hasings,

 

The £25 compensation does not even represent the amount of time in dealing with your latest error in respect of the lower payment. For example, my time looking at previous emails, dealing with the bank to ascertain payment and contacting yourselves via telephone etc.

If the £25 compensation is in full and final settlement for my complaints, then I reject this compensation.

If however the £25 compensation is a gesture of goodwill then it will be accepted.

 

 

I am far from satisfied in the way my complaint has been dealt with by your company.

 

As far as I am concerned, this matter should have been resolved in 2007. Information from yourselves such as:

I can see from the notes on your policy that we received a call from Swinton in February 2007 in regards to a theft claim but there are no notes to register a claim on the system until 11th March 2008.

The above information from yourselves show that it took over a year for the claim to even be registered on your system!

 

The delay in the claim has caused myself a financial loss. Such financial losses are the amount of time I have had to deal with the claim during several years. Even when you paid the claim, I still had my time wasted as further error was made and you paid the incorrect amount.

 

If I were to total up the amount of hours I have spent in dealing with this, for example - visits to Swinton the broker, writing you letters, contacting you via telephone, then in my own estimation I have wasted an accumulated total of around 200 hours. The time I have wasted in dealing with this matter based upon the rate of national minimum wage is more or less the same amount as the settlement figure!

 

Another example of my financial loss is that whilst I had protected no claims bonus, due to the amount of time you took in dealing with my claim, this consequently resulted me in losing my no claims bonus. For example, if I were to use the money in respect of the theft to buy a replacement vehicle, then I would have to insure the vehicle with zero no claims bonus since it took several years for the claim to be paid which resulted in me losing my no claims bonus.

 

A further example of the financial loss is that the valuation figure you provided to me was far below that what I would have reasonably expected. In complaint of this, I sent you details of car prices from THIS YEAR (bearing in mind that the car was stolen several years ago and prices several years ago would have been significantly higher than todays prices).

You state in email the following:

CAPS retail figure is £1875.00

and in respect of this part of my complaint you then increased your settlement figure to £1645.00 whilst stating that it is your final response.

Due to my own opinion that Hastings has shown incompetence in dealing with this matter plus the fact that you said it is your final response, then I felt I was under pressure to accept this increased offer as I had no other alternative, being that you also stated it is your final response!

 

Another question for yourselves: Do you intend on compensating me for the amount of time it has taken for this matter to be dealt with? For example, 8% interest as well as a payment in respect of my time I have used?

 

Your recent error of not paying the full amount of the claim is just ludicrous.

 

I am now wondering whether I should proceed legally with a claim against yourselves to represent my financial losses and/ or to proceed with a complaint with the financial ombudsman.

 

Please will you deal with this complaint and issue your final response in order for me to either accept your response or take matters further.

 

Kind regards

[Hastings Direct. Joe - Soc]

Hi veganite,

 

Thank you again for posting a full and detailed explanation of your complaint. I have passed this on to a member of our team to address, in the meantime if there is anything further that I can do to help please do let me know. I am sorry that I am not able to provide you with a detailed response to your post here on the forum, however I am sure that you can appreciate that this situation is out of the ordinary therefore requires a specialist to investigate all the relevant points.

 

Many Thanks,

Jamie

[veganite]

Hastings have not upheld the complaint.

 

Can anyone advise me what I should think about doing next?

 

Prepare money claim? FOS? ??

[veganite]

Hello Hastings / Jamie,

 

During early July 2014, I made a Subject Access Request with yourselves. I made this request within email to yourselves.

 

Your email reply to my SAR is as follows:

 

Please find attached the Data Subject access request form as requested in your previous e-mail.

 

Please do not send the £10.00 cheque as the form suggests, this will not be deducted from your settlement.

 

As the form mentions, you are not required to fill in the form, but we do require a request in writing.

 

I can not understand what your requirements are! As far as I am concerned, the request has already been in writing.

 

You are now past the time limit in which you should have sent me my subject access request.

 

Your reply to my written email request for a SAR does seem strange since you tell me that I am not required to fill out your form for my SAR although you do require the request within writing. As far as I am concerned, I did make the request in writing through email.

 

Please will you chase up my SAR as I require this in order to compare the information you have concerning my claim against the information I have.

 

Thank you.

[veganite]

Concerning last post, Hastings are now processing my SAR and have offered £30 compensation for the delay.

 

After waiting several years for this to be sorted, there have been further errors made by Hastings such as incorrect payment paid to me and the delay in SAR. For those errors, I had been offered £25 and £30 compensation.

 

My opinion of the errors is that they are indicative of past experience in trying to claim.

 

My previous complaints (the more serious complaints) have not been upheld by Hastings. What is the best way to deal with this?

 

Do I wait for my SAR and compare the information and then proceed with FOS or legal action?

[unclebulgaria67]

Wait for the SAR info. Then try and negotiate with Hastings, before you take it any further. The FOS can take a very long time and then award very little compenation for an Insurers errors. If you want to go down the court route, you would have to show that you had entered into reasonable period of negotation with Hastings.

[veganite]

Hi Uncle Bulgaria,

 

Thank you again for your help!

[veganite]

Hello Hastings,

 

I have several complaints against your company and its course of action in processing my claim for theft of my car. The complaints are detailed below for your information.

 

Complaints you have not upheld:

 

1. Length of time (several years) in which it took to you to process my car theft claim (Not upheld)

2. Loss of my no claims bonus due to length of time it took you to process my claim (Not upheld)

3. Why you required scanned document instead of photo of document (Unanswered)

 

Complaints you have upheld:

 

4. Incorrect lower payment paid to me (Complaint upheld)

5. Failure to provide me with a Subject Access Request within legal time permittied (Complaint upheld)

 

In relation to the Subject Access Request, your letter states:

I would like to offer my sincere apologies for the delay in providing the information you have requested, there has been a mix up in transferring your request to the correct department and I would like to assure you that we have revised our processes to ensure that this does not happen again.

 

In answer to this, it is my view that there has been several 'mix ups' of yourselves transferring requests to the correct departments. My view is that such mix ups can be seen from the length of time it has taken to process a simple claim for car theft (several years). Even when the claim had been processed there was an additional mix up in you actually paying the correct amount, you firstly paid a lower amount. You have recognised that there is a mix up within the SAR and you have stated that you have revised your processes to ensure that this does not happen again. However, even after your letter stating that you have revised your processes, there still is an error in your already revised processes.

 

The error is - Whilst you have sent me data as part of the Subject Access Request, this does seem to be incomplete. The only data I have is from 2014. Whilst I have previously asked yourselves for all data, I also specifically asked for data at the start of the claim. This data has not been provided to me.

 

 

Your letter states the following:

When attempting to retrieve the recorded calls from 2008 & 2009, we have found them to be on a disused recording system which makes it extremely difficult to identify whether these particular calls were recorded and unfortunately makes them irretrievable.

 

Is this a written refusal notice as required by ICO?

 

 

Your letter states the following:

We are also able to provide you with the exact time and dates for all 14 calls (enclosed) and screen prints of all notes relating to your claim (also enclosed).

 

My response to this is:

1. If you are able to see the exact time and dates for my calls, then using such parameters you are easily able to retrieve the calls which you say are extremely difficult to identify.

2. I have not received any information as to the times and dates of the 14 calls despite in your letter you said you enclosed this. Please send again (along with all other information).

3. I have not received prints of all notes relating to my claim. For example, I can only see notes from recent times - all are within the year 2014. My claim goes back several years and as such I require the data from the start of the claim.

 

Whilst I have informed you that I require all the data you hold about me, I have also tried to be helpful in making a specific request for data covering the start of the claim from several years ago.

 

In your letter, you stated that there had been a mix up in my Subject Access Request being transferred to the correct department and you have revised your processes to ensure that this does not happen again. Despite you revising your processes, there still seems to be an error in that you have not sent me any information which covers the start of the claim.

 

From the start of the claim to the claim being paid out, my own opinion is that errors were made.

From after the time the claim was paid out, further errors were made.

Even when the claim had been paid additional further errors are still being made in the fact that you have failed to provide me with a Subject Access Request despite the fact that you have stated you have revised your process to ensure that this does not happen again.

 

To reiterate: I require a Subject Access Request. This is to include ALL data about myself. To be more clear, I require a Subject Access Request that provides me with data which includes absolutely everything you have! Not only from the year 2014, but everything from the start of taking out this insurance policy with yourselves.

 

In addition to my Subject Access Request requirements as above, I would also appreciate it if this complaint can be sent to anyone within your company other than the current claims handler. I request that since in my own opinion the current claims handler has made errors, then this complaint should be dealt with by someone else. In addition to this, to clarify further, I am also requesting that my previous complaints which the current claims handler had not upheld are also dealt with by another person within your company. Preferably the CEO?

 

To make it absolutely clear to yourselves, I require a Subject Access Request which includes ALL data held about myself.

 

Thank you.

[Hastings Direct. Joe - Soc]

Hi veganite,

 

Thank you for posting an update. As per the correspondence you have received from us this matter is now considered to be closed as you have received our final response. The subject access request has been completed and details of the information is outlined along with reasons for any information that could not be provided. As per your final response letter, if you wish to refer this matter to the FOS you can do so within 6 months of the date of the letter.

 

Many Thanks,

Jamie

[veganite]

The Subject access request has not been fully completed. I have data from 2014 and nothing else.

 

In relation to the phone calls, you state that you can not supply them as it is on a disused system making phone calls difficult to retrieve, yet you can supply me with the exact times and dates of phone calls.

 

Using the parameters of the exact time and dates of phone calls would in my opinion make the phone calls easy to retrieve.

 

I see no reason why you haven't provided SAR documents showing the start of the claim.

[veganite]

Sorry, I have made a mistake, I have received SAR documents from the start of the claim.

 

However, the concern above does still stand - ie, I have not received all data.

 

Examples of data which I have not yet received:

 

1. I can not see anywhere within the SAR documents you sent me details of the 14 calls you stated I had made. You said you could provide me with the exact time and dates, yet they do not appear within the SAR documents.

 

2. Neither has any transcribing or details of the phone calls are shown within the SAR documents.

 

3. Copies of letters / documents received are not within the SAR documents.

 

4. Telephone recordings are not included, apart from one phone call in 2014. You state you can provide me with the exact time and date of all 14 telephone conversations and you state that this has been provided. I can not see this document, neither can I find any details within the SAR screenshots.

 

5. Since you can provide the exact date and time of all 14 telephone conversations, using these parameters you are easily able to retrieve the calls from your system, however you state this system is disused so therefore you can't provide.

[unclebulgaria67]

As you have now reached deadlock with Hastings issuing their final response, it is very unlikely you will get any further response from Jamie the Hastings rep. It is now up to you to put a complaint together for the FOS and the FOS will investigate.

 

If you also have a complaint about the data pro SAR, you can take this up with the ICO.

 

http://ico.org.uk/

 

In regard to telephone call recording, to my knowledge the max companies will keep these for is 2 years. After that it will purely be a date/time record.

[veganite]

thanks again!

 

i will update thread with outcome from ICO and FOS as well as any other outcome.