Another unfair ticket fine - rejected appeal

[denom]

Hi guys, I've read a few threads on here to understand my situation. I've decided to post a new thread to get a bit more specific advice, so apologies if a case like this has already been answered numerous times.

 

I received a fine on Sunday morning, 11/05/2014, for not having enough money on my oyster whilst travelling on a bus home in Croydon. I tried to scan the card on the reader twice and rather than it telling me I was low on credit, it gave me a sort of error message. I looked at the driver and he didn't instruct me to pay so I walked on assuming the fault was with the reader - I believed I had enough money on the card. I'd made the journey from Bethnal Green to East Croydon via London Victoria, and I knew that I had at minimum £4.50 credit before reaching London Victoria. As I understand, an off-peak fare from Victoria to East Croydon is £3.00 and an Oyster bus fare is £1.20 so it should've been enough to get me home.

 

As I told the inspectors, I suspect the problem occurred at Victoria. Please open the link which contains a screenshot of my Oyster's fare history.

 

i.imgur.com/1MLbACM.jpg?1

 

I tried to board a train to East Croydon at 6:30am from Victoria. I scanned in at the barrier and walked onto the platform. The guard in charge of the platform told me that the train was not going to Croydon (I found out he was wrong) and turned me around advising me to get the next available one. I walked back and spoke to another guard on the barriers. She decided to scan me out instead of letting me scan myself out. I waited almost another hour for the next one and scanned myself in again. As the screenshot shows, the first scan-in took my balance from £4.65 to £1.30, deducting £3.35 from my card without me making a journey. That is obviously because I hadn't scanned out, which even if I'd done, I suspect would've eaten up some credit. But it is also because I was following instructions and advice from the station guards at London Victoria. So I alighted at East Croydon with £-0.70 on my Oyster card from £4.65. This combined with a dubious card reader has rewarded me with a fine worth more than half a day's wages for me.

 

I appealed the next day, and received an email yesterday stating that it was turned down and will need to cough up the £40 -

 

"Having considered your reasons for appeal I must advise you that your appeal has been turned down.

 

It is your responsibility to buy and/or hold a valid ticket or other authority to travel and to have this available for inspection for your entire journey. You are also responsible for ensuring enough time is available to buy a ticket and/or touch in your Oyster. Oyster users must also ensure that, where appropriate there is enough money on their Oyster and that it is successfully validated.

 

I appreciate that you may have experienced problems at Victoria station which caused your Oyster card to have less funds available than you thought, however as you did notice that your card had not validated correctly when boarding the bus, you needed to query this with the driver or leave the bus to check your Oyster card was working correctly to ensure that your fare was paid.

 

Payment of the outstanding balance is now due."

 

Obviously I think this is very unfair, especially since I travel daily between zones 1-6 for work and have never attempted to dodge a fare. Now I'm wondering if I have any sort of case legally and if a 2nd appeal would go anywhere, or do I just have to swallow it and pay the fine?

 

Thanks.

Edited May 24, 2014 by denom

[Bandit127]

I am no expert but I suspect your obligation to ensure you have funds available for your journey is fairly clear in the T&Cs. As such, you breached that obligation.

 

The fact that the reason you didn't have the funds available was down to their system not working is a moral, but not contractual factor.

 

Therefore I think you need to appeal in a way that works on a moral level. I would pay (since the fine seems to be contractually legitimate) but complain to customer services afterwards and ask them to refund the fine as a goodwill gesture.

[Conniff]

You need Old-CodJA on this one, he is the expert. I will alert him but it is his choice whether he comes or not.

[Old-CodJA]

At first look it seems as though you received a PFN and the 'letter of the law' has been applied in respect of Oyster usage, but I do think that there is a good case for a further appeal on this one.

 

I need to deal with something urgent at present, but will look in and post again later

[denom]

ok thanks. any other comments are welcome.

[denom]

nothing? i'll wait until tomorrow for further suggestions, if nothing then i'll pay the fine. it feels like i'm been robbed.