hillies/Alpins sols/DLC/ Court claim old BlackHorse Loan poss Fraud?

[AndyOrch]

It has been mentioned when submitting a defence not to us the term "Unable to admit or Deny" as judges see that statement as Debt avoidance

 

Going through the Civil Procedure Rules, CPR 16.5(1) As to submitting and contents of a Defence:

 

16.5(1)(b) which allegations he is unable to admit or deny, but which he requires the claimant to prove;

 

 

So if admit or Deny is i the CPR as to a defence, how can it be seen as debt avoidance to use the quote "Admit or Deny" as it has already been quoted in the CPR

 

Because it is when the phrase is used in the same sentence " I neither admit or deny " you can admit and deny but used separately.

 

The above NoA is as much use as a piece of toilet role:wink:

[obiter dictum]

Andy

 

Many thanks again for the clarity in your response

 

That template assignment notice gives no notion of good title for hillisden securities to bring any action in their name, i might as well have done it myself for all the use it will be

 

How might you suggest i go on the attack as to that Notice of Assignment, do we have any threads on just this issue i can reference besides your valuable input

[AndyOrch]

You dont need any threads you simply attack it within your Witness Statement at the appropriate time.Be aware that arguing assignments is not a defence winner as most DJ,s would accept the above as valid as most dont understand the LoP

[obiter dictum]

Doing more research

 

What would be the situation if the original creditor prior to assignment failed to issue notices of default sums as to S.86(B)(D) Consumer Credit Act

[obiter dictum]

quick bump

[AndyOrch]

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1974/39/section/86D

 

3.

[obiter dictum]

So if the original creditor failed to issue any notices of Default Sums as to s.86D(3) prior to any assignment to a DCA,. the assignment will be ineffectual in law and an absolute defence

 

comments people

[AndyOrch]

Pre and post assignment...nothing about post assignment in the CCA1974.Not sure an absolute defence but certainly a helpful additive.

[obiter dictum]

interesting, i will keep digging, thanks

[obiter dictum]

in two weeks i will have to start putting my defence in order, i believe i have enough information but clarification please

 

Has the original Creditor prior to sale to a collection agency got to send you a Termination notice, and if so, what are the penalties for not doing so.,, or cannot provide a copy

[dx100uk]

no they have not

all they have to so is prove one was sent by say an entry in the comms log

 

I do not think they have to terminate before selling.

 

dx

[obiter dictum]

I really do not wish to go down a part 18 request as that is just asking direct questions, not a phishing excercise

 

What i am after is getting to see the Deed of assignment AS THE NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT IS PANTS

 

What are peoples opinions i contact the solicitor and ask to inspect the Deed of assignment as to:

 

Van Lynn Developments V Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968

Otherwise i will have to request at the case management hearing

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

I really do not wish to go down a part 18 request as that is just asking direct questions, not a phishing excercise

 

What i am after is getting to see the Deed of assignment AS THE NOTICE OF ASSIGNMENT IS PANTS

 

What are peoples opinions i contact the solicitor and ask to inspect the Deed of assignment as to:

 

Van Lynn Developments V Pelias Construction Co Ltd 1968

Otherwise i will have to request at the case management hearing

 

 

 

You will not get sight of the DOA unless a judge decides it is necessary and orders it to be produced, (rarely happens).

 

 

Anything produced will so heavily redacted it will be of little merit anyway.

[obiter dictum]

It is the date of the assignment i am after on the Deed

[BRIGADIER2JCS]

It is the date of the assignment i am after on the Deed

 

 

That too will be on the coms log which is what they can rely on.

What do you dispute in regard to the date of the assignment.

[dx100uk]

why?

 

have you sent these muppets a signed CCA and a CPR?

 

if the debt is not yours

they'll be no signed agreement

 

simple end of problem surely

 

dx

[obiter dictum]

To be totally honest DX

 

I am playing them for maximum costs

 

inspection of the Deed of Assignment, if they come back saying sod off commercially sensitive, i give the response

 

Webster v Ridgeway [2009] ELR 439

 

I am after confirming that they have absolute (legal) assignment to bring the action in their name

 

I have now provided links to case law on two seperate occasions saying i am entitled to inspection of the Deed of Assignment, why would i just prefer to accept just a coms log?? i do understand the judge has the ultimate decision though

[obiter dictum]

Defence is last day tomorrow, all done but another angle

 

Hillesden Securities have just sent a template Notice of Assignment and People have been saying that that is irrelevant as they can rely on records, screen shots etc

 

What about

 

HFO Capital Limited v Burney

[obiter dictum]

As the tital sugests

 

When was 86E CCA 1974 Effectual under law (Date) as to giving notice of default sums by the original creditor ??

 

Thanks as using it in a defence to a claim against a DCA

[AndyOrch]

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?161927#post1736169

 

Regards

 

Andy

[obiter dictum]

Thanks people

[obiter dictum]

Another question

 

If the debt was then assigned without giving a notice as to 86E

 

Will the Assignment then be innefectual in law inhibiting the assignee, that being DCA from taking action in its own name

 

The assignment amount will be inaccurate

 

Will the sale be innefectual as well in that the account has been terminated and sold as a terminated account despite failure as to 86E

[The Mould]

Non-compliance of s.86E(2) by a creditor will not invalidate the assignment of the agreement because s.86E(5) only provides that he shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement until the requisite notice is served on the debtor and the assignment of the agreement is subject only to the provisions of the Law of Property Act 1925. See relevant legislation below.

However, because your agreement has been assigned and the assignee (the new owner) has commenced with proceedings to enforce the agreement, until the assignee complies with s.86E(2) of the CCA 1974, he is not entitled to enforce the agreement in contravention thereof by operation of s.86E(5) and that should form part of your Defence against his claim.

See the Link v Jones case, as this provides you with an important and irrefutable point of law which you can rely upon as regards the circumstances of your case.

The said case confirms that the claimant in your case, as the claimed assignee of the credit agreement, is a creditor within the meaning of s.189 CCA 1974 (as amended), therefore, he is under a statutory duty (s.86E(2) CCA 74 ) to serve a notice of default sum on you before he can become entitled to enforce the credit agreement.

“86E Notice of default sums

(1)This section applies where a default sum becomes payable under a regulated agreement by the debtor or hirer.

(2)The creditor or owner shall, within the prescribed period after the default sum becomes payable, give the debtor or hirer a notice under this section.

(3)The notice under this section may be incorporated in a statement or other notice which the creditor or owner gives the debtor or hirer in relation to the agreement by virtue of another provision of this Act.

(4)The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay interest in connection with the default sum to the extent that the interest is calculated by reference to a period occurring before the 29th day after the day on which the debtor or hirer is given the notice under this section.

(5)If the creditor or owner fails to give the debtor or hirer the notice under this section within the period mentioned in subsection (2), he shall not be entitled to enforce the agreement until the notice is given to the debtor or hirer.

(6)The debtor or hirer shall have no liability to pay any sum in connection with the preparation or the giving to him of the notice under this section.

(7)Regulations may—

(a)provide that this section does not apply in relation to a default sum which is less than a prescribed amount;

(b)make provision about the form and content of notices under this section.

(8)This section does not apply in relation to a non-commercial agreement or to a small agreement.”

Kind regards

The Mould

[obiter dictum]

Just what the doctor ordered

 

Impressed

[obiter dictum]

With MCOL,

 

Do you have to sign the Defence with a statement of truth prior to uploading to MCOL web site