‘Magicians Choice’ to evade paying bailiff fees. Is there really a ‘loophole’ in the new regulations or is this a TRICK?

[Peterbard]

I would like to think that if the forum is giving advice on English debt practice and is referring to English law(supposedly), that the powers that be, would be able to use the regulation that protect the indigenous population, wherever the web site was registered, is that too naive ?

[Coughdrop]

I would like to think that if the forum is giving advice on English debt practice and is referring to English law(supposedly), that the powers that be, would be able to use the regulation that protect the indigenous population, wherever the web site was registered, is that too naive ?

 

That was my question Dodgeball. I agree with you, but if registered in the UAE do these two people have to hold a CCL?

[wonkeydonkey]

That was my question Dodgeball. I agree with you, but if registered in the UAE do these two people have to hold a CCL?

 

He takes payments by credit/debit cards and is therefore 'selling' his advice but as he is not 'lending' money to the transactions he does not require a CCL.

[Peterbard]

Hmm category D perhaps debt advice ?

 

Particularly if the debt is derived form a CCA source and been through the county court.perhaps being enforced by HCEO perhaps.

[Peterbard]

I know indecently that bailiff companies possessors a CCL and also that the OFT did express the opinion that they would concern themselves with activities not directly involved in collecting CCA debts, as these would reflect on their licencees fitness.

[Coughdrop]

From the old OFT Site. The way I read this, one of the two people introduces people to companies so would surely count as debt counselling? It's quite possible Category E may also be applicable. So, is a CCL needed given the two people are both registered as living in the UAE?

 

There's also this from the FCA (LINK).

 

Here's the OFT stuff:

 

It would be unusual for any business to adjust a client's debts without having counselled or advised them about it first. It is expected that both Categories D and E are applied for together in such circumstances.

 

Applicants for this category are likely also to need category D, 'Debt adjusting', however it is possible to engage in debt counselling without engaging in debt adjusting.

Lead generators who introduce clients to debt management companies also often need debt counselling as a licensed category.

 

 

Since 31 October 2004, it has not generally been debt counselling to carry on this activity solely for debts due under mortgages regulated by the FSA. Such activity is instead regulated by the FSA.

 

 

If you apply for category E you will also be required to fill in a competence form.

 

For further information, please see guidance on debt management.

[mikeymack2002]

Why do you think this site is registered in the UAE when it "could be in the USA?

 

http://db-ip.com/66.69.147.101

[Coughdrop]

Nominet has the two sites as UAE. Strange!

[mikeymack2002]

open cmd in windows type in ping web name then enter you get their ip address then search this to get further details or follow the easy steps here http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Website's-IP-Address if its any use to anyone

[mikeymack2002]

From the old OFT Site. The way I read this, one of the two people introduces people to companies so would surely count as debt counselling? It's quite possible Category E may also be applicable. So, is a CCL needed given the two people are both registered as living in the UAE?

 

There's also this from the FCA (LINK).

 

Here's the OFT stuff:

 

It would be unusual for any business to adjust a client's debts without having counselled or advised them about it first. It is expected that both Categories D and E are applied for together in such circumstances.

 

Applicants for this category are likely also to need category D, 'Debt adjusting', however it is possible to engage in debt counselling without engaging in debt adjusting.

Lead generators who introduce clients to debt management companies also often need debt counselling as a licensed category.

 

 

Since 31 October 2004, it has not generally been debt counselling to carry on this activity solely for debts due under mortgages regulated by the FSA. Such activity is instead regulated by the FSA.

 

 

If you apply for category E you will also be required to fill in a competence form.

 

For further information, please see guidance on debt management.

 

 

If you knew the CORRECT details and just a little bit more you would know this to be a different answer

[ploddertom]

Nominet has the two sites as UAE. Strange!

 

Registration & Hosting are two completely differnt things.

[Peterbard]

Registration & Hosting are two completely differnt things.

 

Indeed. It would be nice if the FCA could be encouraged to take an interest in forums which are operating soley for profit and to the consumers detriment, they certainly take an interest in CMC's, I think the key may be proving a CCA link.

[Ganymede]

Is there nothing that can be done with this perhaps via the FCA.

 

It seems to me that this is debt advice, does he have a a license for instance.

 

 

 

I'd say drafting Claim Forms and Particulars of Claim etc is more than just "debt advice" and actually a reserved legal activity and therefore a criminal offence if he isn't a regulated solicitor or legal executive etc.

[tomtubby]

Given the importance of this thread it was also turned into a STICKY yesterday and it is simply extraordinary that within just 24 hours over 1,300 visitors have viewed both threads. Absolutely amazing.

 

On a serious note, I would like to explain why I started this thread:

 

I first started posting here on the Consumer Action forum in 2007 (a year or so after the forum had started). It is not necessary to provide user names but in 2008 a poster kindly shared with the forum the outcome of a legal action against Drakes Group (as it was then).

 

The brief details were that he was a Pilot based in the Middle East and his partner (who was also a Pilot) was the victim of a bailiff visit where a bailiff supposedly trapped her foot in the door breaking a bone in her foot. She was unable to use the foot pedals and was off work for about 5 months from her airline (Easy Jet). The poster claimed that the outcome of the legal action was that his partner received a substantial settlement. The poster confirmed in 2008 that he had paid over £18,000 to bring the legal claim on behalf of his partner. The same poster also provided full details of his background and details of this court claim on another forum (Legal seagulls). There is no need therefore for any further comment.

 

Worryingly, a short while later the poster (and sometimes relatives of his (as confirmed by the poster himself) started posting on this forum about ways to evade paying bailiff fees in relation to Magistrate Court fines. In short, the advice given was that there was no legal basis to pay bailiff fees and that instead, a debtor should take payment in cash of the amount of the fine only to a 'drop box' located in the court foyer and that once a receipt was obtained the distress warrant 'no longer had effect' and the warrant 'dies'. Worryingly, the same poster frequently posted that the enforcement companies were committing fraud (by charging such a fee). There were numerous occasions where moderators removed such posts and many 'flame wars' broke out on the forum (almost always directed at me).

 

In 2012 the same poster eventually started posting the same information on Legal seagulls. The posts were not well received and a year later in 2013 the poster started his own website and joined another small forum where he continued (until very recently) to encourage debtors that his 'theory' was correct (when in fact it was completely wrong). It is important to note that so far, there has not been evidence of even one case a debtor receiving a refund of the bailiff fees for enforcing a Magistrate Court fine. On his own website he charges debtors £15 to download a template letter and was charging a 'telephone consultation of £75 (reduced to £35).

 

The 'advice' given about court fines by the poster started to dry up a few weeks ago after HMCTS responded to the following FOI request:

 

https://www.whatdotheyknow.com/request/bailiff_actions?unfold=1

 

Following the introduction of the new bailiff regulations on 6th April the websites are now seeking alternative ways in which to encourage debtors to defeat paying bailiff fees (this time in relation to council tax debts) and naturally such 'advice' (as rotten as it is) is quickly being picked up by other websites associated with the Freeman on the Land movement.

 

It was therefore for this reason that this thread was started.

 

 

.

[tomtubby]

"Dodgeballs' footnote is an important one as it states the following:

 

If you don’t want to share something....don’t say it on the internet.

 

The phrase "Magicians Choice" started to appear on this forum in 2008 and at that time, the poster attempted many times to post links to his own website where he outlined his reason for starting the site and it is only fair and proper that the public are able to know those reasons. You will see that the poster also explains his background.

 

PS: Trouble trying to download the attachment (I am not the best with computers).

 

In the meantime the following extracts are in his own words from the site in question:

 

So what am I?

 

My career started as a professional diver in oil & gas exploration for BP and my academic qualifications are in marine geology, but the murky waters of the deep aren't the same as the coral reefs of the Caribbean and the Maldives. I switched careers late in life and I'm now a commercial pilot flying Boeing 777's for a middle-eastern airline.

 

I sometimes travel the UK holiday park circuit with a touring magic show where I play the swirrly background music on a keyboard stack. They do balancing acts, plate spinning, chopping pretty ladies in half with a buzzsaw and making things dissapear. Grizzly stuff till I realised how the illusion works. I must try that on bailiffs.

 

 

PS: I would assume that the term "Magicians Choice" was very likely started during his time touring magic shows.

 

Lastly, it is important that this serious thread does not go 'off topic' and therefore I do NOT wish to comment further on the person. Instead, all future comment should be on the important subject of the incorrect advice being given to debtors (on how to defeat payment of bailiff fees).

[renegadeimp]

Surely his advice is reportable to someone.

[tomtubby]

It would seem that even Google picked up this thread overnight as it also appears on the front page of SCOOP today:

 

http://www.scoop.it/t/lacef-news

[Peterbard]

Surely his advice is reportable to someone.

 

You would think so. Under ordinary circumstances"advice" given on these forums is really opinion and fair comment(in most cases). I would have thought that when you start charging people you open a whole new can of worms. Especially when the advice is flawed and harmful, irrespective of the consumer credit aspect I would have thought that there would be a trading standards issue.

 

There is an offense I believe called holding out to be a solicitor which the SRA enforce against people who falsely purport to have legal qualification for financial gain, how effective, or how well enforced it is I am unsure.

[Coughdrop]

It is definitely effective and well enforced, I've seen it used. However, this person is not doing that, they claim no formal legal qualifications I don't believe - happy to be corrected.

 

Does anyone know which Trading Standards it would be?

 

Must just say thanks to Ploddertom for pointing out my schoolboy error over registering and hosting earlier on! We all do it occasionally.

[mikeymack2002]

Yes if you know the full story you would be able to get the reference number

of cases pending against a few different sites

 

in regards to this matter you need the appropriate licence as a debt advisor/adjustor

It is well known by several different investigative depts that some don't have them

That some sites are under investigation already. Time will tell which sites the are....

 

This is the danger of not giving the correct LEGAL advice and charging for it you

inadvertently enter into a Contract, which we all know is legally binding.

 

 

Someone complains to the authorities that they paid for that information and was incorrect.... because you "Paid" for debt advice it is a Contract, so therefore enforceable as such in a Court of Law. This is how the debtors can get "redress" from such sites

 

Contract law is very complex but it has a safety net for POOR services rendered this is the way to get redress by such web sites...

[mikeymack2002]

Slightly off topic but within its parameters, has anyone ACTUALLY read and looked at the T&C's of these sorts of sites?

 

 

If you read them very carefully most of them fail to give the information on whom the DATA CONTROLLER is, they gather information about you, they STORE it, where, how, is it secure, does it conform to International storage of data protocols? Now this is a huge can of worms for some sites.

 

Most state that they collect personal information including your IP ADDRESS, that is fine if you use a proxy server to view certain sites, they will then be looking at the wrong area of the world. If they have your IP address which as we all know is free to trace via certain providers freely available on the net. You can almost "look" at someone's front door via goggle street view.

 

 

Please be very aware one site in particular likes to get the upper hand on the debtor, but get very upset if the tables are turned on them, they will then well you can guess the rest, I am refraining from naming any site but if you check out quite a few sites you maybe able to see how awful protocols on data storage and use of YOUR personal information is handled

 

 

Now being very careful here IF you know how to get this information and locate other needed details you can visually see so much more than they want you to "see" or know

[tomtubby]

It is definitely effective and well enforced, I've seen it used. However, this person is not doing that, they claim no formal legal qualifications I don't believe - happy to be corrected.

 

Does anyone know which Trading Standards it would be?

 

 

 

Trading Standards is one route to complain but there are quite a few other 'agencies' as well. Given the location of the business the following Trading Standards office would be the best:

 

 

West Sussex County Council

Trading Standards

County Hall North

Chart Way

Horsham

West Sussex

RH12 1XA

 

 

t: Citizens Advice consumer helpline on 08454 04 05 06

f: 01403 249987

e: trading.standards@westsussex.gov.uk

[wonkeydonkey]

You would think so. Under ordinary circumstances"advice" given on these forums is really opinion and fair comment(in most cases). I would have thought that when you start charging people you open a whole new can of worms. Especially when the advice is flawed and harmful, irrespective of the consumer credit aspect I would have thought that there would be a trading standards issue.

 

There is an offense I believe called holding out to be a solicitor which the SRA enforce against people who falsely purport to have legal qualification for financial gain, how effective, or how well enforced it is I am unsure.

 

This is from a post made on another forum on August 31st 2012 which clearly shows he advocates to have 'legal' qualifications.

 

"I had a classic case several years back. I didnt represent the NRP at his tribunal because I am not a solicitor, but as a qualified paralegal, I drafted his statements, and he got a nice payout, but CMEC (as its former self) was slow making that payment."

[Peterbard]

The whole "paralegal" thing is a mystery to me.

 

I understand that there is no qualification as such however there is a difference between a licensed paralegal and your ordinary run of the mill variety. I think anyone can call themselves a paralegal, someone on another forum refereed to themselves as a "paralegal consultant", i took to mean that they were in contact with the spirit world( i later realized that this was paranormal and i had miss-read)

[lamma]

Do they show at the National Association of Licensed Paralegals or the Institute of Paralegals.