Parking eye - parking charge notice **Dropped before POPLA**

[Laya23]

Hi everyone, I know there are loads of parking eye threads but I find then hard to understand because I only recovered letter no.1 today. It's is a parking charge notice with CCTV stills of my car entering and leaving a car park 9 minutes apart. I went there to drop someone off and pick them up, I did not leave my car or turn off the engine. Anyway, i read some old threads from prior to 2012 freedoms act and they said ignore ignore ignore. This doesn't seem the case anymore and now we have to follow the appeals process, is that right? What are the next steps and I really really don't want to be taken to court or have anything mark my credit file!!! Thanks

[f16]

Laya23, Welcome to CAG

Can you give us the date of the "offence" and the date you got the letter.

Don't ring them up (just in case you were thinking about it) NO it will not affect your credit file

You can not ignore any more, We will do assist you on CAG

Can you also get photos of the signs in the car park and post them up .

[Laya23]

The offence was the 14th of February and the letter is dated the 19th of february

[f16]

The letter had to get to you in 14 days, so they are in time on that.

What have they refered to the "offence" as .... Can't be overstay .You didn't stop!!!!

[Laya23]

It says this 'the signage which is clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park states that this is private land and car park is managed by parking eye ltd and parking tariffs apply or a parking charge will be incurred, along with other terms and conditions of the car park by which those who park in the car park agree to be bound.

By either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted, in accordance with a the t's and c's set out on the signage, the parking charge is now payable to parking eye ltd (as the creditor)'

 

Even if I had parked, got out and got a ticket and got back to my car, this probably would have taken 10 minutes!!! It's a car park at the back of a department store.

[f16]

If you could go back to the car park and photo the sign because there is normaly a 10 min "Grace period" , to allow time to get a ticket

[i hate bailiffs]

You can not ignore any more,/QUOTE]

 

Parking eye have had a bashing in court lately

There is no obligation to go through the appeals procedure but if you do it costs them money and you should win

 

However if you would like the possibility of court( I am still waiting 6 or so months on) so bit of a lottery if anything will happen

[Laya23]

Ok I'll get down to the sign tomorrow and see and then I think I will appeal because I just can't be bothered risking it and I will end up flapping!!!

[armadillo71]

It says this 'the signage which is clearly displayed at the entrance to and throughout the car park states that this is private land and car park is managed by parking eye ltd and parking tariffs apply or a parking charge will be incurred, along with other terms and conditions of the car park by which those who park in the car park agree to be bound.

By either not purchasing the appropriate parking time or by remaining at the car park for longer than permitted, in accordance with a the t's and c's set out on the signage, the parking charge is now payable to parking eye ltd (as the creditor)'

 

Even if I had parked, got out and got a ticket and got back to my car, this probably would have taken 10 minutes!!! It's a car park at the back of a department store.

 

18.5 If a driver is parking with your permission, they must have the chance to read the terms and conditions before they enter into the contract with you. If, having had that opportunity, they decide not to park but choose to leave the car park, you must provide them with a reasonable grace period to leave, as they will not be bound by your parking contract.

 

That's from the BPA Code of Practice. No specific time given, but I think your appeal to PE could actually get cancelled at the first attempt.

If not, it will be cancelled at POPLA.

[Laya23]

When you say my appeal will be cancelled, is that good or bad?

[f16]

Appeal process is the route I would advise. (In my opinion)

CAG have had a lot of success with correctly worded POPLA appeals. 2 Today.

Your appeal to PE will get rejected, but they have to give a POPLA no. That will cost them £29.00

Put up the photo of the sign and then your appeal to PE can be worded for you.

[armadillo71]

When you say my appeal will be cancelled, is that good or bad?

 

Good. I meant your parking charge!

 

You appeal to ParkingEye as registered keeper and state what happened. Add that there was no loss to the land owner from the drivers nine minute venture into the car park. Do not identify yourself as the driver.

If this does not work, the charge will get cancelled at the next stage, POPLA.

[f16]

armadillo71, I'm totaly with you on that #12 100% good advice

[Laya23]

Ok so I say I have received a letter from you regarding blah blah blah... I am the RK of the vehicle and believe that the drive raised no loss to the land owner and want to appeal the parking charge. Then should I include to PE the bit about having a period of grace etc? And if you seem this unacceptable please give me the POPLA reference no. So I can take it up with them ASAP?

[f16]

No, put the photo up first. No rush at the moment

[Nev Met]

Whilst there is no real need in this case not to identify the driver (because ParkingEye are usually spot on with complying with PoFA) it is still best practice to only ever respond as the Registered Keeper across the board - sort of keeps it simple.

 

It would appear that, at the moment, ParkingEye are not bothering to defend POPLA appeals where a challenge to a lack of 'genuine pre-estimate of loss' and/or 'sufficient contractual authority' are raised as an issue.

 

Now you could (and no disrespect to other members) go running around getting photos of signs, the tarmac, the buildings in the area and even some perhaps of their ANPR cameras. You could also trawl through the BPA Ltd CoP for every minor breach and even contact the local planning department to see if their signs and cameras have planning permission. Some (myself included in the past) have even suggested contacting the landowner, or the retail outlets in an attempt to get the parking charge cancelled.

 

Or you can simply email an appeal to PE (today) based on the template appeal letter on the Parking Cowboys website and once they refuse the appeal take it to POPLA and using virtually the same points - win, and an easy win at that.

 

[Edit - small point but the cost of the appeal to POPLA for the PPCs is £27 plus VAT, which is about £32 inclusive (and not £29) - it also costs the BPA Ltd (apparently) £100 on top of that per POPLA appeal]

 

Think of this process as the start of a journey to getting the ticket cancelled, you can either go all the way around the houses or you can go straight there, the choice is yours.

[armadillo71]

Our goal is to get the charge cancelled at the earliest opportunity.

A template letter to PE will not do this.

The OPs situation allows PE to show some 'goodwill' and cancel the charge at first appeal.

Of course adding that no loss to the landowner has occurred, shows that there is knowledge of what the charge is.

And if it doesn't work, then POPLA it is.

[Nev Met]

Our goal is to get the charge cancelled at the earliest opportunity.

A template letter to PE will not do this.

The OPs situation allows PE to show some 'goodwill' and cancel the charge at first appeal.

Of course adding that no loss to the landowner has occurred, shows that there is knowledge of what the charge is.

And if it doesn't work, then POPLA it is.

 

I see exactly where you are coming from and probably less than a month ago I would probably have agreed with you 100%.

 

However, the game is rapidly changing, almost week by week, and at the moment PE appear to have made a (commercial?) decision not to challenge any POPLA appeals; certainly where a lack of contractual authority and/or a genuine pre-estimate of loss has been raised.

 

Therefore, to get this cancelled at the earliest opportunity and with the minimum of effort, the current advice appears to be appeal to PE on those grounds (via email) and then when they refuse it appeal to POPLA on the same grounds (via email) - job done.

 

Not only that but there are other 'bigger picture' for reasons for going to POPLA

 

1) It costs PE £32

2) It costs the BPA Ltd £100

3) Another 'win' at POPLA is another little statistic to add the weight of evidence (number of POPLA 'wins') currently being inserted vertically into the DVLA as a challenge to the whole data release shambles (the DVLA has assured the ICO that 'reasonable cause' must relate to something that is legally enforceable, eventually the growing number of POPLA 'wins' against PE will reach a tipping point even for the goons at the DVLA to have to accept that PE's charges are not legally enforceable and therefore 'reasonable cause' cannot legally apply)

[armadillo71]

I see exactly where you are coming from and probably less than a month ago I would probably have agreed with you 100%.

 

However, the game is rapidly changing, almost week by week, and at the moment PE appear to have made a (commercial?) decision not to challenge any POPLA appeals; certainly where a lack of contractual authority and/or a genuine pre-estimate of loss has been raised.

 

Therefore, to get this cancelled at the earliest opportunity and with the minimum of effort, the current advice appears to be appeal to PE on those grounds (via email) and then when they refuse it appeal to POPLA on the same grounds (via email) - job done.

 

Not only that but there are other 'bigger picture' for reasons for going to POPLA

 

1) It costs PE £32

2) It costs the BPA Ltd £100

3) Another 'win' at POPLA is another little statistic to add the weight of evidence (number of POPLA 'wins') currently being inserted vertically into the DVLA as a challenge to the whole data release shambles (the DVLA has assured the ICO that 'reasonable cause' must relate to something that is legally enforceable, eventually the growing number of POPLA 'wins' against PE will reach a tipping point even for the goons at the DVLA to have to accept that PE' s charges are not legally enforceable and therefore 'reasonable cause' cannot legally apply)

 

 

I agree with the 'bigger picture' , but we who are hardened to the PPC tactics, should not forget the OP(s) in all this.

 

 

They fear debt collectors, court and ccjs on their credit file... We know none of these have to be encountered and that parking charges will get cancelled due to there legality.

 

 

But unless OPs show some understanding and willingness to 'help the cause' , then I think the very easiest option should be taken. In this case, nine minutes in the car park, allows a personalised appeal that has a better chance of cancelling the charge at first appeal. If not, it's POPLA anyway!

 

 

Each OP is different...

[Nev Met]

Whilst I understand and accept that each OP is different, and on the face of it some may appear to require a personalized appeal, this 'method' may soon, by necessity, become a thing of the past.

 

The sheer scale of the private parking industry requires a point and shoot appeal system otherwise sites like this will be nothing more than nuisance value and continue to have minimal impact on the overall problem.

[armadillo71]

Whilst I understand and accept that each OP is different, and on the face of it some may appear to require a personalized appeal, this 'method' may soon, by necessity, become a thing of the past.

 

The sheer scale of the private parking industry requires a point and shoot appeal system otherwise sites like this will be nothing more than nuisance value and continue to have minimal impact on the overall problem.

 

 

So are you suggesting that sites like this(MSE,PePiPoo),use a blanket template first appeal to every OPs PPCs NTK? ( Too many acronyms! )

[Nev Met]

This has been the position for a while now and the Parking Cowboys are now on version 2 of their generic 'one size fits all' first appeal letter

 

The link is here http://www.parkingcowboys.co.uk/appeal-letter/

 

If the link doesn't work then google parking cowboys appeal letter

 

However, the times they are a changing and as a number of PPCs are rejecting the initial appeal but then not contesting the POPLA appeal, the next version should be a template that can be used for both the initial appeal to the PPC and to POPLA without any messing about with the text.

 

As I said, a simple point and shoot system.

[Laya23]

Ok I don't have a clue what most of the abbreviations mean above but the just of it is, I appeal to PE stating I'm the RK and if that fails, I appeal to POPLA, both via email?

I did go and have a look/get pictures of the signs. They don't mention a grace period for getting a ticket, just all the usual stuff. There isn't a sign as you drive directly into the car park though, so to read the prices, terms and conditions and so on, you would have to park up, and walk over.

[Nev Met]

Ok I don't have a clue what most of the abbreviations mean above but the just of it is, I appeal to PE stating I'm the RK and if that fails, I appeal to POPLA, both via email?

 

I have a car, I'm not a mechanic and can just about figure out how to put oil in it but I understand that it has an engine and that so long as I put diesel in it it works. I don't understand why it works, all the technical stuff, it is enough for me to know that it does work.

 

I did go and have a look/get pictures of the signs. They don't mention a grace period for getting a ticket, just all the usual stuff. There isn't a sign as you drive directly into the car park though, so to read the prices, terms and conditions and so on, you would have to park up, and walk over

 

I call this 'yellow jacket syndrome', you are coming at this from a position and thought process that this is somehow a legitimate process and on a par with a police or local authority ticket. This is entirely understandable and in fact it is how this private parking business model works.

 

The other issues (grace period and signage) are fine and dandy if you want to get into a protracted argument with the operator but don't lose sight of what will give you a slam dunk win, by all means throw the other arguments in but you must understand and accept they are not the necessarily the silver bullet you need.

[kirkbyinfurnesslad]

So are you suggesting that sites like this(MSE,PePiPoo),use a blanket template first appeal to every OPs PPCs NTK? ( Too many acronyms! )

 

Thats currently being worked on.

I am getting a site built that will generate a letter based on the operator so either contractual Sum or breach of contract. The same for popla.

So you put details in eyc and select the operator. This then generates a pdf/word file for the user