friend switching from JSA to ESA - can a sanction be applied?

[Bazooka Boo]

AFAIK, and unless they have moved the goal posts, yet again!, then No you don't, if you are awarded WRAG or SG then you don't have to send these in.

 

However, my advice might be a bit dated, as I was thrown off all benefits 2+ years ago and now survive of handouts from friends & family, and what I can steal or beg.

[joeski]

AFAIK, and unless they have moved the goal posts, yet again!, then No you don't, if you are awarded WRAG or SG then you don't have to send these in.

 

However, my advice might be a bit dated, as I was thrown off all benefits 2+ years ago and now survive of handouts from friends & family, and what I can steal or beg.

 

id put nothing past the tories, they are always penalising the terminally ill sick disabled unemployed and poor

 

why was you thrown off benefits if you don't mind me asking?

[estellyn]

He needs to call and confirm he is in the support group. Is he transitioning from having won an appeal? - it can take time for everything to get sorted.

[joeski]

He needs to call and confirm he is in the support group. Is he transitioning from having won an appeal? - it can take time for everything to get sorted.

 

no he got awarded support group ESA a few weeks after going for his ATOS assessment.

[Nystagmite]

It could just be a mistake. But I'd phone up to double check.

[joeski]

It could just be a mistake. But I'd phone up to double check.

 

my friend has just got off the phone to them, they said there is nothing on is records to say he shouldn't send them so he should keep sending them until he hears other wise. what does this mean? i always thought once you were awarded ESA which ever group then you no longer need to provide medical evidence. it sounds to me like they are deliberately trying to make life as difficult and stressful as possible for claimants

[estellyn]

my friend has just got off the phone to them, they said there is nothing on is records to say he shouldn't send them so he should keep sending them until he hears other wise. what does this mean? i always thought once you were awarded ESA which ever group then you no longer need to provide medical evidence. it sounds to me like they are deliberately trying to make life as difficult and stressful as possible for claimants

 

OK, he needs to call them back and request a call back from a decision maker who actually knows what they're talking about, rather than a poorly trained phone monkey.

[joeski]

OK, he needs to call them back and request a call back from a decision maker who actually knows what they're talking about, rather than a poorly trained phone monkey.

 

decision maker? does this mean he is not actually on ESA support group and that letter saying he has been awarded it is wrong?

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Who sent the letter telling him his last medical certificate is about to expire and to send a new one?

 

Who issued the medical certificate?

 

Why did it have an expire date on it?

[joeski]

it was the DWP who send him the letter and its his GP who issues him with them.

[antone]

Who sent the letter telling him his last medical certificate is about to expire and to send a new one?

 

Who issued the medical certificate?

 

Why did it have an expire date on it?

 

The JSAPS computer system automatically sends reminders when a med cert is about to expire. Most certs have expiry dates on them. The doctor who issues a cert can sign it as valid "Until Further Notice" but they don't often do this and there are rules in place as to how they can be accepted, the details of which I can't remember off the top of my head.

 

A person in the WRAG or SG does not need to provide certs, but as Estellyn says, it is wise to keep providing them until the SG decision is noted on the JSAPS computer.

[Lapsed Workaholic]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

 

 

Rather than get involved in protracted exchanges with DWP about what they can and can't do in this regard, and as there does not appear to be any definitive answer easily to hand, would it not be easier to make a simple, presumably routine, request to the doctor for an updated certificate?

[Nystagmite]

But why should they, if they're in the support group? Once you're in a group, you don't need to send in medical certificates. In fact, I'm sure it even tells you on your award letter you don't need to.

[joeski]

But why should they, if they're in the support group? Once you're in a group, you don't need to send in medical certificates. In fact, I'm sure it even tells you on your award letter you don't need to.

 

i've looked at the letter he got telling him he's in support group and and i can't see where it says he doesn't have to provide medical certificates any more he can't deal with the stress of calling them up again so we're in the process of getting another from his GP. my personnel opinion on the affair is that things like this get done deliberately to make life difficult and stressful for the claimants, i remember reading somewhere that advisor's were told to treat claimants in that way which i find disgusting. the tories seriously need to go in May or this country will be doomed

[estellyn]

i've looked at the letter he got telling him he's in support group and and i can't see where it says he doesn't have to provide medical certificates any more he can't deal with the stress of calling them up again so we're in the process of getting another from his GP. my personnel opinion on the affair is that things like this get done deliberately to make life difficult and stressful for the claimants, i remember reading somewhere that advisor's were told to treat claimants in that way which i find disgusting. the tories seriously need to go in May or this country will be doomed

 

OK this works in the short term, giving time to send a letter to the dWP requesting they correct the error that is sending med cert requests.

[estellyn]

decision maker? does this mean he is not actually on ESA support group and that letter saying he has been awarded it is wrong?

 

A decision maker is the person who processes, makes changes or corrects errors on a benefit claim, regardless of what rate they're on or indeed what benefit. A decision maker will input details from your med certs.

 

In all probability, there is simply an error or oversight meaning the computer system is still sending med cert reminders. To correct this send a letter with the next med cert to point out the error.

[joeski]

A decision maker is the person who processes, makes changes or corrects errors on a benefit claim, regardless of what rate they're on or indeed what benefit. A decision maker will input details from your med certs.

 

In all probability, there is simply an error or oversight meaning the computer system is still sending med cert reminders. To correct this send a letter with the next med cert to point out the error.

 

thanks, he was going out of his mind when i mentioned decision maker. does its have to be an actual letter or can he just stick a postic note on the certificate saying he is in support group?

 

if this computer system was designed by Iain Duncan Smith then im not surprised it has errors lol

[antone]

thanks, he was going out of his mind when i mentioned decision maker. does its have to be an actual letter or can he just stick a postic note on the certificate saying he is in support group?

 

if this computer system was designed by Iain Duncan Smith then im not surprised it has errors lol

 

Heh, the computer system predates IDS by quite some time. The one used for ESA is just a variant of the one that was designed for JSA back in the early 90s, and it probably wasn't "state of the art" even then.

 

It doesn't need to be a full letter or anything - just a short note (include his name and NI number) saying something like "Please find attached my latest medical certificate. As I am now in the Support Group, it is my understanding that no further med certs are required - could you please update your records accordingly? Thank you, signed..."

[joeski]

Heh, the computer system predates IDS by quite some time. The one used for ESA is just a variant of the one that was designed for JSA back in the early 90s, and it probably wasn't "state of the art" even then.

 

It doesn't need to be a full letter or anything - just a short note (include his name and NI number) saying something like "Please find attached my latest medical certificate. As I am now in the Support Group, it is my understanding that no further med certs are required - could you please update your records accordingly? Thank you, signed..."

 

i never knew the computer system dated back to the 90's, that explains why a lot of stuff goes wrong.

 

couldn't he just send the letter back with a note but no medical certificate stating he is in support group or will that cause problems?

[antone]

 

couldn't he just send the letter back with a note but no medical certificate stating he is in support group or will that cause problems?

 

He could do that, yes. The reason we normally suggest sending certs in these circumstances is to ensure there is no break in his payments while his change over to the SG is processed: if his cert expires before his computer record is updated, the system may withhold payment. He'd probably get the amount backdated eventually, but for many people even a few weeks without benefits can cause problems.

 

I would say, though, that he'd be better to do as you suggest than to do nothing at all - all he has to lose is the price of a stamp.

[joeski]

He could do that, yes. The reason we normally suggest sending certs in these circumstances is to ensure there is no break in his payments while his change over to the SG is processed: if his cert expires before his computer record is updated, the system may withhold payment. He'd probably get the amount backdated eventually, but for many people even a few weeks without benefits can cause problems.

 

I would say, though, that he'd be better to do as you suggest than to do nothing at all - all he has to lose is the price of a stamp.

 

he has already had it backdated and received his first ESA payment in support group, he only got another certificate just after Christmas because he the one he send before his WCA expired, so the one that has expired now was basically to tide him over till he got his results. he didn't realise he's hear back from the DWP quite so quickly.

 

he's been in support group since just after Christmas when he received the letter and he send his current medical certificate off a day or so before he found out about it so technically he didn't really need send the last certificate or does it take time from the awarding of ESA to someone and the system getting updated?

[antone]

He's probably OK to do nothing, then, if he's already been paid at Support Group rates - that does suggest that the necessary updates have been made to the computer system. The processor is supposed to set a marker on the system to prevent those med cert reminders from being issued. Perhaps they forgot to do that. In any case, he should not need certs from the day he was placed in the SG.

[joeski]

He's probably OK to do nothing, then, if he's already been paid at Support Group rates - that does suggest that the necessary updates have been made to the computer system. The processor is supposed to set a marker on the system to prevent those med cert reminders from being issued. Perhaps they forgot to do that. In any case, he should not need certs from the day he was placed in the SG.

 

thanks i've told him and he has already submitted a request for another certificate, the woman he spoke to the other day said there was nothing on the system to say he should stop sending certificates and he should send another one asap. was she wrong to tell him that as he can prove he is in support group with the letter?

[antone]

It's probably as Estellyn said upthread - the folks who answer the phones are not always well-trained, and they often don't have full access to the relevant systems anyhow. He could ask for a call back from a Decision Maker, as she suggested, just to confirm what's happening.

 

If he has another cert available and it's no hassle to send it then he may as well do so, but it's probably not a big deal since he's already been paid at the SG rate. He may also find that the DWP writes to his GP advising that no further certs are required. This is normal and nothing to worry about.

[joeski]

It's probably as Estellyn said upthread - the folks who answer the phones are not always well-trained, and they often don't have full access to the relevant systems anyhow. He could ask for a call back from a Decision Maker, as she suggested, just to confirm what's happening.

 

If he has another cert available and it's no hassle to send it then he may as well do so, but it's probably not a big deal since he's already been paid at the SG rate. He may also find that the DWP writes to his GP advising that no further certs are required. This is normal and nothing to worry about.

 

i suggested that to my friend but he didn't seem keen on that as he gets very nervous, he has put in a request an his GP surgery for another certificate but it won't be ready until next week. its no hassle but the confusion as to whats going on has made him on edge, he likes to know whats going on so his mind is at rest. so the GP mite say when we go to pick up the new certificate that it isn't required?