friend switching from JSA to ESA - can a sanction be applied?

[joeski]

i know what you mean and i have witnessed first hand the appalling way they treat claimants, i have told my friend to be careful and always ask me if he is unsure about anything.

ive told him he doesn't have to attend as he on ESA assessment rate and not to be intimidated by the provider.

[joeski]

As an ESA claimant in the Assessment Phase, joeski's friend has no need to engage with the WPP at all. Oh sure, they will probably attempt to fool him into thinking otherwise, but any decision to sanction must be made by the DWP, not the WPP.

 

is there still a chance though my friend will be sanctioned?

[antone]

is there still a chance though my friend will be sanctioned?

 

Not likely, no - he can't be sanctioned for failing to attend a non-mandatory appointment. If the WPP refers him, the DM should reject it.

[joeski]

Not likely, no - he can't be sanctioned for failing to attend a non-mandatory appointment. If the WPP refers him, the DM should reject it.

 

 

thanks i will tell him to stop worrying about it so much.

[Shoelover]

Would it not be better to ask what it's about by email? They might ignore emails but at least he can prove he has taken steps to sort things out.

[joeski]

Would it not be better to ask what it's about by email? They might ignore emails but at least he can prove he has taken steps to sort things out.

 

it says on the letter they want an update about he current situation and availability for work.

[Nystagmite]

I would ignore it. Someone on ESA is unfit for work, therefore, they won't be available for work.

[Shoelover]

it says on the letter they want an update about he current situation and availability for work.

 

Ask them to clarify as you are on ESA!

[antone]

it says on the letter they want an update about he current situation and availability for work.

 

I'm with Nystagmite - he's fine to ignore them. But if he wants to write or email. he should tell them that his current situation is that he's an ESA Assessment Phase claimant and that as such, he is not required to participate in the Work Programme. That's all he needs to say. He should say it as politely as possible, yes, but he doesn't owe these guys anything.

[Nystagmite]

I remember when I was put on ESA a few years ago - they asked me for my sick note, which was valid for one month. DWP & I took this to me July 2nd - August 2nd. WP took it to be July 2nd - July 30th. The 30th was a Monday and I'd been away over the weekend. On the 30th, I received a phone, a few voicemails and text messages to tell me that tomorrow, (August 1st) I had an appointment at 9am.

 

After this and another similar incident, I spoke to my job centre who were in agreement with me and spoke to the WP for me.

 

And then somehow, WP decided I was in WRAG and called me. I don't think they were that happy that I'd declined their offer of "help". According to the letter I had from DWP, I can ask for help; but it's not compulsory.

 

Got job centre involved again, (I got the impression they weren't happy either) and I've not heard anything since.

[joeski]

ive advised my friend to email them explaining he is on ESA and currently in the process of getting help for his issues, you don't think the WPP put it as JSA on the letter because they know something we don't?

[Nystagmite]

Aren't their letters (like DWP) computer generated, rather than written for each claimant?

[antone]

ive advised my friend to email them explaining he is on ESA and currently in the process of getting help for his issues, you don't think the WPP put it as JSA on the letter because they know something we don't?

 

It's actually more likely that the WPP doesn't know something that you do - that something being the fact that your friend is now on ESA.

[Mr.P]

Referring to Chapter 5 of the DWP guidance, the provider should have been notified of the change by way of a WP07b. Perhaps a short note to the provider asking if they can read (the WP07b) would be in order.

 

joeski: Paragraph 27 on page 6 may well be of interest:

Mandatory participant moves from JSA to ESA

27. Where you are notified that a mandatory JSA participant has ceased their JSA to claim ESA, they remain attached with you and their participation requirements should be treated as the same as those of a Voluntary ESA participant until the outcome of the Work Capability Assessment (WCA)

On that basis, any appointment letter that uses either JSA or ESA mandation templates would be inappropriate and should be challenged.

[joeski]

my friend has said he will not be attending due to the fact the WPP was one of the things that made him worse.

[joeski]

my friend emailed the WPP to tell them he wouldn't be attending the appointment which was yesterday because he is on ESA assessment rate, he never received an email or phone call from them back so i guess he'll know in a few days if a DMA referral has been made or not.

[joeski]

hi everyone,

 

my friend has his assessment with ATOS later this moth just before Christmas and he wants to how long after the assessment will he know if he has been awarded ESA or not?

he also has appointment with his WP provider which is not mandatory unless the rules have changed about mandatory appointment letters and the wording have been changed which i don't think they have. if he was on JSA this would be his last month on the WP and he wants to know even though he came on JSA on ESA will this still be his last month and will he have to go back to the WP if he is not awarded ESA?

[Mr.P]

The clock starts ticking from the day he had his first meeting with the Work Programme provider. Changes to his JSA/ESA claim or short periods of employment does not stop the clock. So if he has almost finished the required 104 weeks, his final meeting will be to complete an exit report - He should demand a copy of this for his own record and as proof that the sentence has been served.

[joeski]

The clock starts ticking from the day he had his first meeting with the Work Programme provider. Changes to his JSA/ESA claim or short periods of employment does not stop the clock. So if he has almost finished the required 104 weeks, his final meeting will be to complete an exit report - He should demand a copy of this for his own record and as proof that the sentence has been served.

 

thanks, he will be relieved to know he is almost done with them. does this mean he should really attend the appointment in a few weeks time as it'll probably be his last even though its not mandatory? also how long will he have to wait for the results of his medical with ATOS and can he appeal he they say he is not eligible for ESA?

[Mr.P]

If the final meeting is not mandatory, then he does not have to attend. Until such time as the results from the ATOS assessment comes through, he is still a voluntary participant. As for appealing any adverse decision, others will be able to offer advice along with tips on how to go about it.

[joeski]

If the final meeting is not mandatory, then he does not have to attend. Until such time as the results from the ATOS assessment comes through, he is still a voluntary participant. As for appealing any adverse decision, others will be able to offer advice along with tips on how to go about it.

 

thanks for your help, i will pass this information on. he suffers from bad anxiety and can get quite depressed sometimes so i think he should be on ESA WRAG as he would like to get back to work. but it is for higher powers to decide and giving ATOS's past record i don't hold out much hope.

also it does not say on the letter its his final appointment on the WP, all it says is 'client to attend appointment' but its not worded in the right way for it to be mandatory.

[jasta11]

My final appointment with Ingeus didn't mention anything about it being 'final' either - I don't think they have a suitable letter template for that (though it's not exactly rocket science to make one is it!).

 

I had the cheeky adviser say 'This is your last chance to get something out of this course before you leave', to which I replied '..and this is your last chance to find me a good job very quickly so I don't have to put in a lengthy, detailed complaint about this whole place'. Took the wind out of him, that did

 

...and I did put in a 4-page long complaint too. As has been said, make sure you get your Exit Report when you finish, and more importantly tell them that under NO circumstances are they ever to contact you again now you're done with them, or else you'll class it as harassment and report them. You really need to hammer things home to these people, sadly. Good luck.

[joeski]

My final appointment with Ingeus didn't mention anything about it being 'final' either - I don't think they have a suitable letter template for that (though it's not exactly rocket science to make one is it!).

 

I had the cheeky adviser say 'This is your last chance to get something out of this course before you leave', to which I replied '..and this is your last chance to find me a good job very quickly so I don't have to put in a lengthy, detailed complaint about this whole place'. Took the wind out of him, that did

 

...and I did put in a 4-page long complaint too. As has been said, make sure you get your Exit Report when you finish, and more importantly tell them that under NO circumstances are they ever to contact you again now you're done with them, or else you'll class it as harassment and report them. You really need to hammer things home to these people, sadly. Good luck.

 

from what ive seen of the WP provider my friend is with they seem pretty useless and big headed, the staff seem more interested in getting outcome payments than anything else.

i told my friend to make sure he gets a copy of his exit report but he literaly hasn't been to one appointment there this year so it shouldn't take long to do an exit report with him lol

[joeski]

my friend wants to know if he can rearrange his ATOS medical for a day when he'll be able to take someone with him and will it affect his assessment rate ESA? i got a job about 8 months so im not up to date with how the benefits system works any more.

[joeski]

my friend has recently be awarded ESA support group but today he received a letter telling him his last medical certificate is about to expire and to send a new one by a certain date, i was lead to believe if you are awarded ESA you no longer need to provide medical certificates.

does my friend need to get another one or should he just ignore the letter?