LPA receiver help required please

[Mr Thoma5]

Hi having just found the forum we are very grateful for any help or advice regarding our position.

Having been with Allied Irish bank for the mortgage on our property they simply wouldn't allow us to go on an intrest only mortgage for any length of time and wanted capital and repayment this resulted in arrears.

The property was rented out unofficially with the banks knowledge of course but they didn't have a buy to let product available so would not change the mortgage. Anyway the property is now in arrears and probably in around 200k of negative equity and we spoke on the phone with the bank who kindly suggested they appoint an lpa receiver!!!!

 

he has since lost the tenants , changed the locks on the house and tried to sell the property leaving an outstanding balance of 200k without our consent . He is demanding that we remove all belongings from the property for insurance purposes if we don't comply he will remove them and place in storage for us. The kitchen is very expensive gagenau etc and when i emailed regarding removal of the appliances he demanded we seek legal advice as we weren't to touch anything bar furniture etc however we believe that we can take washing machine, dryer, wine fridge , steam oven regular size and dishwasher drawers (not built in) but must leave the appliances that have wooden kitchen matching doors (built in) hob , hot cold filter tap (cut into granite) and expensive light fittings?? having told him of our intention he wants a copy of our legal advice to pass onto his solicitor however i got the advice in conversation with a solicitor and citizens advice and have no copies to give him !! please any advice would be really helpful no matter how small!!

[Mr Thoma5]

i suspect our case differs from the majority of the others on here as we don't want control of the house back as the receiver has it we aren't paying mortgage bills etc etc (we have tried to sell it on numerous occasions without success) We would rather it sold and then worked with the unsecured debt that remains through negative equity but we are completly at a loss with regard our legal position and what the receiver can cant do etc etc

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

As your query seems to be about legal matters more than mortgages, I'll move your thread to General Legal and leave you a short term redirect to follow from here to the new forum.

 

My best, HB

[Mr Thoma5]

thank you

[Mr Thoma5]

sorry not sure it wouldnt be better placed on the mortgage thread as original ??

[honeybee13]

I'll flag this for the site team to see if anyone can help and if there would be a better forum.

 

HB

[caro]

You say this wasn't a buy to let mortgage?

 

Did you intend to let it when you bought it?

 

Are the LPA receivers selling it?

[Mr Thoma5]

no it was our home initially then relocated for work we were on a repayment mortgage but then requested interest only which they would only do for 6 months , then they just denied anymore intrest only and wanted repayment which is where the arrears came from as id suffered an earnings reduction of over 50%, then we asked about rental they initially said no as they had no buy to let mortgage products to offer us....anyway we rented property and the rental covered the intrest only payments and the bank were ok ish! but then wanted the arrears paying off in full which is when they suggested bringing receivers in, which now brings us to today tenants moved out the receiver is trying to sell the property which at his valuation leaves a 200k unsecured shortfall , and wants to take all of our furniture out for insurance reasons and gave us 14 days to do so before he removes them to storage.

But as i explained earlier we can take everything else except the expensive kitchen appliances which are the main appeal of the property.

So we are in a pickle and were after some information/guidance re LPA receivers what they can and cant do what we can and cant take from the house etc etc. sorry for the long reply

[Mr Thoma5]

thank you HB

[caro]

Did you agree to the lpa receivers?

 

Who is your lender?

[steampowered]

Where are you based? Assuming you are in England or Wales have a read of http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-36a

 

 

As far as I'm aware there aren't any specific legal rules specific to LPA receivers relevant to what assets form part of the property. LPA receivers are a contractual beast and therefore you need to look very carefully at your loan agreement to see what they are entitled to.I'm not an expert in this stuff but if there is nothing in the contract you'll need to think about the legal distinction between 'fixtures' which form part of a property and 'chattels' which do not. Have a look at http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/law/legal-updates/chattels-fixtures-and-acceding-to-the-realty/5037212.article.

 

I think the dishwasher drawers, built-in appliances and light fittings would be fixtures but the other stuff you mentioned are probably chattels you can remove.

 

He has no right to insist on seeing legal advice. There is no requirement for you to obtain legal advice, and if you did you have the right to keep it confidential. He is the LPA receiver he should know what you can take and what you cannot he should ask his solicitor. If he doesn't cooperate then the remedy would be to bring a court claim against him. Although you want to avoid a situation where you get stung for his legal costs. I'd be tempted to try and arrange for the non-built in appliances to be removed when you pick up the furniture.

[Mr Thoma5]

The bank sort of suggested them and we verbally said ok on the phone Allied Irish

[Mr Thoma5]

Thanks for articles and taking the time to reply steam the land registry link doesn't work! Thanks again any more info would be of great help I'm presuming that as our mortgage is a residential one surely an lap receiver can't be used as they're only for commercial property?

[caro]

As steampowered says, check your agreement to see what it says about this.

[steampowered]

LPA receiver is not only for commercial property as far as I'm aware. They aren't used in owner-occupier cases since a court order is needed to evict in that situation, but this was a BTL property so I don't think a court order is required.

 

 

Link is fixed.

[Against the LPA Receiver]

Do not let them take anything and do not let them into your house. The bank kindly suggested they appoint an LPA Receiver? Do you know what they will do to you after they have sold the house? They will chase you for the rest and try to make you bankrupt. Who are they. Unless of course you want to see the back of this house and you are seriously wanting to give it up I suggest you take your things, ifyou can.

Edited February 15, 2014 by ims21

[Mr Thoma5]

Hi all further to my Allied Irish and LP receiver issues. The Receiver and bank between them have sold the house leaving a 250,000 shortfall (interestingly enough through the same estate agents who had valued our house previously) They have also proceeded to put our belongings into storage and tell us that they'll be sold at auction unless we have them removed. However they've also taken it upon themselves to leave some of our belongings in the house after sale including plasma tv, sound system, washer, dryer etc etc and after loads of emails to and from the receivers all of a sudden Allied Irish want to buy the items for 2,000 and knock it off the shortfall!!! The receiver has also asked that we hurry up and remove items from storage so that they can resign from the case!!?

 

would really appreciate any advice or contacts (free hopefully) that anyone has that specialise in such cases! Aren't receivers supposed to be for commercial property? ours was a residential mortgage so is the whole situation illegal? and is the sale of our personal items in the house not theft??

 

thanks for taking time to read and as i said any suggestions would be a great help!

[BazzaS]

Hi all further to my Allied Irish and LP receiver issues. The Receiver and bank between them have sold the house leaving a 250,000 shortfall (interestingly enough through the same estate agents who had valued our house previously) They have also proceeded to put our belongings into storage and tell us that they'll be sold at auction unless we have them removed. However they've also taken it upon themselves to leave some of our belongings in the house after sale including plasma tv, sound system, washer, dryer etc etc and after loads of emails to and from the receivers all of a sudden Allied Irish want to buy the items for 2,000 and knock it off the shortfall!!! The receiver has also asked that we hurry up and remove items from storage so that they can resign from the case!!?

 

would really appreciate any advice or contacts (free hopefully) that anyone has that specialise in such cases! Aren't receivers supposed to be for commercial property? ours was a residential mortgage so is the whole situation illegal? and is the sale of our personal items in the house not theft??

 

thanks for taking time to read and as i said any suggestions would be a great help!

 

http://www.michaelparkes.co.uk/documents/LPA_Receivers_what_they_do.pdf

 

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/Geo5/15-16/20/section/109

 

The receiver is appointed under the provisions of the LPA 1925 S.109

 

The advantage for the mortgage company (the mortgagee) is that the receiver acts as your (the mortgagor's) agent, but is bound to process income according to priorities that mean they and the mortgage company get first bite at any income.

 

Another advantage for the mortgagee over repossession is if the property is in negative equity but they expect property values to increase : they get a "holding measure" until the value increases and they get more at sale.

 

Often (but not always) the property is sold at auction : this avoids any suggestion that it was sold at less than "market rate"

 

Moving to the items in the property : it depends if they are fixtures or chattels. Fixtures belong to the property and are part of its sale. Chattels remain in your ownership.

 

It isn't quite as simple as "if it is fixed it is a fixture, if it can be picked up and moved it is a chattel", but that is a starting point.

 

If a plasma TV is fixed to a wall stand but removable without damaging the wall : it is likely a chattel.

"White goods" such as a cooker are chattels if affixed only by e.g. A power lead or gas connector, but if part of a "built in kitchen" : a fixture.

A standard size tumble dryer in a standard sized space would be a chattel.

 

TSB v Botham is a leading case on this.

[Mr Thoma5]

thanks very much bazza this is as we thought which is why i think they've eventually made us an offer for the goods that they deliberately left in the house!!

is it possible for an administrator to add this to my last posts on this matter please

[Mr Thoma5]

Also despite their best efforts the shortfall in mortgage is unsecured how does this affect the banks ability to chase back and press for bankruptcy etc??

[caro]

The receivers will have been appointed because you were letting out the property. I doubt they will want to make you bankrupt as they'd have to pay for that and kiss goodbye to £250k shortfall. You may not like me saying this, but depending on your circumstances, maybe you should consider bankruptcy so you won't have this hanging over you for the next few years and can start again. Your credit rating will be wrecked now anyway.

 

Regarding your belongings, I would get them ASAP if you want them or storage fees may mount.

 

There are a number of letters in the cag library regarding shortfalls which you might like to consider.

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/forumdisplay.php?407-Mortgages-and-Secured-Loans

[honeybee13]

Duplicate threads merged and tidied. Please continue to post on this one.

 

HB

[Mr Thoma5]

Thanks for the info however the property wasn't officially let i.e. it wasn't a buy to let mortgage as the bank didn't have one available at the time and they said they'd rather let us unofficially let the property to receive some rental income??

[Mr Thoma5]

also i have copies of letters from receiver saying they've been appointed (by whom?) as lpa receiver on our property and also a letter from the bank stating that we ,AIB group etc by virtue of powers conferred on them by legal charge executed in their favour by me and my wife hereby appoint the receivers to be the receiver ( please bear with me!!!) ....it goes on to say in exercise of powers conferred on them (the bank) hereby direct that the receiver shall unless otherwise instructed by them in writing apply the balance of monies received in or towards the discharge of the principal monies secured to them by us.

 

Question: Are these letters stating that the bank appointed the lpa receivers for themselves??? if so does this then give them liability for the shortfall etc? and nowhere in the general terms and conditions does it mention receivers of any description??

Edited July 30, 2014 by Mr Thoma5
typo

[caro]

I don't know the answers but maybe this link will shed some light. http://www.landregistry.gov.uk/professional/guides/practice-guide-36a