TFL Cctv pcn **Won on Appeal**

[green_and_mean]

I never used the word conspiracy, you decided I felt it was a govenment(sic) conspiracy.

 

You seem to be keen to display your ignorance;

 

The Dictionary meaning of maintenance is " the work of keeping something in proper condition; upkeep". This is clearly different from "Installation" which is the act of setting something up.

 

I believe, if you continue, you will dig yourself deeper into a pit.

 

Regards

 

You quoted from section 2.2 which covers the process required in order to get a certificate, so they either do not have a certificate which is untrue as I've seem it, or the VCA gave them a certificate fraudulently which is hardly likely.

 

Chapter 2 General Requirements for Certification of Systems

 

2.1 Certification Process

 

The appendix you refer to is a list of suggested items that should be in the contruction file, maybe you should look up the meaning of suggested whilst you have your dictionary to hand!

 

Annex 5. Suggested Technical Construction File Contents

Carry on being rude if you like but its you that is coming across as stupid, quoting out of context and relying on Yahoo to back up your arguments is hardly going to win an argument with me I'm afraid!!

 

[green_and_mean]

From whom?

 

The Pepipoo police!!

[donarebun]

The Pepipoo police!!

 

You can't spell government and yet you laugh at me? wonderful!

[BazzaS]

You can't spell government and yet you laugh at me? wonderful!

 

when you start having to rely on criticism of spelling rather than debating the substantive argument (with or without factual citations to support it), it suggests to me that you are loosing your argument. Better to not post, than post "criticism of spelling" alone?.

[green_and_mean]

You can't spell government and yet you laugh at me? wonderful!

 

Pointing out a typo is the best you can do, you really are as ignorant as you make out! p.s wonderful should have a capital W if we are being that petty!?

[green_and_mean]

The sad thing is I've never lost a single case I've helped with, so if you came here and posted the PCN and details of the case instead of being rude and moaning about the tone of some members replies you may have actually got some constructive advice. Your attitude and behaviour is like going to a GP for medical advice and then telling him he doesn't know what he is talking about as you googled your illness.

[Michael Browne]

quoting out of context and relying on Yahoo to back up your arguments is hardly going to win an argument with me I'm afraid!!

Luckily he doesn't need to win the argument with anyone here, just TfL. Should be a piece of cake, with what he's got so far.

 

Meanwhile looks like I'll be languishing in the Pepipoo police cells

[donarebun]

when you start having to rely on criticism of spelling rather than debating the substantive argument (with or without factual citations to support it), it suggests to me that you are loosing your argument. Better to not post, than post "criticism of spelling" alone?.

 

Hi,

 

I believe that I was the first and still the only one to make an argument citing a reputable document.

 

But most importantly I'm not here to make any argument at all.

 

I came here looking for answers but due to the response I got I had to go elsewhere.

 

I only came back because I felt, and still feel, that this website is a great idea but people are trying to ruin it by being mean and harsh.

 

And that's all I'm trying to point out but the mean and harsh people are trying to crucify me.

 

Unfortunately I am one that ALWAYS stand up to bullies so I'll keep fighting with everything I have got.

 

People give in to bullies but I'm just different

[green_and_mean]

Hi,

 

I believe that I was the first and still the only one to make an argument citing a reputable document.

 

But most importantly I'm not here to make any argument at all.

 

I came here looking for answers but due to the response I got I had to go elsewhere.

 

I only came back because I felt, and still feel, that this website is a great idea but people are trying to ruin it by being mean and harsh.

 

And that's all I'm trying to point out but the mean and harsh people are trying to crucify me.

 

Unfortunately I am one that ALWAYS stand up to bullies so I'll keep fighting with everything I have got.

 

People give in to bullies but I'm just different

 

Yes you quoted a document you obviously don't understand. The bulk of the document is how to get a system approved so if Tfl hadn't followed it's contents it would not have been approved but it has been. Maintenance CANNOT be part of the approval system simply because once approved a system cannot be unapproved. CCTV cameras are just like your fridge, TV, computer etc what is your maintenance schedule for those items? As with most electrical equipment there are very few moving parts so they do not get maintained just fixed if they go wrong , you claim to be an engineer what actually needs to be maintained in a camera?

[donarebun]

, you claim to be an engineer what actually needs to be maintained in a camera?

 

Calibration?

 

I know as an engineer that every equipment NEEDS to be maintained in one form or the other to maintain its integrity.

 

Your Fridge, TV and computer don't last forever, at one stage or the other they break down.

 

As they are for personal use, you don't have to have a maintenance schedule, but you carry the risk that they could lose their integrity before total break down.

 

CCTV cameras have moving parts; the cameras are rotated to face different directions at different times.

 

The cameras have shutters which are moving parts.

 

The cameras are exposed to the elements so everything put in place to protect them has to be checked from time to time to see if they are still effective.

 

I know you will only think of Lightening Conductors but even those need to be checked from time to time.

 

Though every equipment undergoes quality control both at the manufacture stage and at the installation stage but any QA personnel will tell you that failure can still occur at any time during operation.

 

That's why maintenance is important and that's why I feel strongly that there is a legal requirement.

 

Finally you are given a driving licence but if you don't drive properly ie within the law eg drink driving you can be banned from driving.

 

Also an equipment can be approved today but if the owners fail to maintain its integrity and it gives false result then the approval can and should be withdrawn.

[donarebun]

Maybe you didn't start out to be mean and harsh but you came out as such.

 

You made a mistake and I'm prepared to accept that, but my position is this we should ALL be careful as we could scare off others from this brilliant website.

 

Thanks

[green_and_mean]

Calibration?

 

I know as an engineer that every equipment NEEDS to be maintained in one form or the other to maintain its integrity

 

What needs to be maintained on a TV for example, some things are designed to have have no service.

 

Your Fridge, TV and computer don't last forever, at one stage or the other they break down.

 

As they are for personal use, you don't have to have a maintenance schedule, but you carry the risk that they could lose their integrity before total break down.

 

Which is exactly what I said the cameras are not serviced unless they break

 

CCTV cameras have moving parts; the cameras are rotated to face different directions at different times.

 

And if they stop moving someone will go fix it

 

The cameras have shutters which are moving parts.

 

cctv cameras do not have shutters they have an electronic iris they are just like a posh web cam they have no moving parts

 

The cameras are exposed to the elements so everything put in place to protect them has to be checked from time to time to see if they are still effective.

 

I know you will only think of Lightening Conductors but even those need to be checked from time to time.

 

Though every equipment undergoes quality control both at the manufacture stage and at the installation stage but any QA personnel will tell you that failure can still occur at any time during operation.

 

That's why maintenance is important and that's why I feel strongly that there is a legal requirement.

 

Finally you are given a driving licence but if you don't drive properly ie within the law eg drink driving you can be banned from driving.

 

Also an equipment can be approved today but if the owners fail to maintain its integrity and it gives false result then the approval can and should be withdrawn.

 

That is your opinion and you are free to express it but there is no law to remove approval of a camera system and in reality there is no need for there to be. If the camera fails to work it will not be able to see you breaking the law, there is no fault in the system that would benefit the enforcement authority. I fail to see how if the focus stopped working or the operator could not move the camera that puts the motorist at a disadvantage? Your issue is with the time on the PCN which is produced by a computer at the office and has nothing to do with cameras being maintained at all?

[BazzaS]

Hi,

 

I believe that I was the first and still the only one to make an argument citing a reputable document.

 

But most importantly I'm not here to make any argument at all.

 

I came here looking for answers but due to the response I got I had to go elsewhere.

 

I only came back because I felt, and still feel, that this website is a great idea but people are trying to ruin it by being mean and harsh.

 

And that's all I'm trying to point out but the mean and harsh people are trying to crucify me.

 

Unfortunately I am one that ALWAYS stand up to bullies so I'll keep fighting with everything I have got.

 

People give in to bullies but I'm just different

 

As for "I'm not here to make any argument at all" : My opinion is that what I have seen suggests otherwise. You don't seem to want healthy debate, only unqualified agreement with your position, and you react badly to anything else.

 

It should have been clear that I was referring to "logical" and "substantive" argument, as in arguing for your point of view on facts or persuasive opinion. Would you prefer "debating" in place of "arguing"?

 

If you think the replies have been "mean and harsh" and "trying to crucify" you, and you feel you've been bullied : I would have to conclude that you've only inhabited some pretty sheltered sites up to now.

The replies are (in my opinion, since what else can I give?) reasoned and reasonable, and far from harsh, mean, bullying or 'crucifiction'.

 

It may, however, be that you see yourself as as some kind of martyr? That is what I perceive.

[donarebun]

You seem to have missed my point completely

 

My Point is that the CCTV cameras have lost their integrity due to non-maintenance. I'm NOT saying they have broken down.

 

I'll give you some examples

 

A coloured TV showing black and white pictures sometimes or lines across the picture (we call it rasta) has lost its integrity, it has NOT yet broken down.

 

A Fridge not as cold as it used to be has lost its integrity but has NOT yet broken down.

 

A computer freezing has lost its integrity, it has NOT yet broken down.

 

TFL own document states that this CCTV camera ought to be serviced every six (6) months (March and September) but they haven't done so for nine (9) months.

 

So my point was, and still is, that the equipment has lost its integrity and shouldn't be relied on for evidence.

 

I'm NOT saying it has broken down.

 

 

Even if I was wrong there is a polite way of pointing out facts but you were very mean and judgemental and that is wrong.

 

There is a professional way of answering questions but you behaved like a complete amateur.

 

If I had listened to your comment I would have been stuck and having to pay money to TFL.

 

But thank God I went to Yahoo Answer and got professional and courteous answer.

 

Best regards and I wish you learn and change your ways.

[donarebun]

Hi,

 

I'm not here for a debate either, I came here for advice and answers but I didn't get any, only amateur responses so I left.

 

I only came back to say I don't think it is fair to the owners of the site that those who have no clue should chase people out.

 

As for your view that the replies here were reasonable, I would only advice you google my initial question and check out the Yahoo Answer response.

 

That's all I can say.

[ploddertom]

Well I think this has more than run its course and is going nowhere.

 

Thread Closed

 

Now reopened

Edited February 8, 2014 by ploddertom
Further info received

[ploddertom]

Post reopened

[king12345]

I won an appeal at patas a couple of years ago because a certain borough in west London could not provide evidence of their cameras being maintained.

They clocked me stopping on a double yellow but the video had the wrong date and time on it.

They got busted.

The adjudicator wasn't too impressed that they had ignored my fir.

If they don't check their equipment they wouldn't know that the date and time is wrong on the video.

This case sounds similar to mine, so worth appealing imo.

[donarebun]

Hi All,

 

I won the appeal, but I will be honest and state the reason;

 

TFL issued a charge certificate after I had appealed to PATAS, so the Adjudicator ruled it as "Procedural Impropriety".

 

I didn't pursue the maintenance angle becos I couldn't get hold of the legal requirement.

 

Now seeing King12345 post I wished I chased that angle.

[king12345]

As long as you won the appeal.

 

Us motorists are hit left right and centre with official and unofficial tax.

 

One unofficial tax that really drives me crazy is the resident parking permit on public roads.

 

We already pay a premium price to keep our cars on public roads (road tax, insurance and mot)

and then they charge us again to keep them on a public road.

 

We already paid for that!

 

In my borough they have covered every corner and alleyway with cctv and painted double yellow everywhere,

so if you're dropping someone anywhere you have to find a car park where you can stop or you get a pcn.

 

Now that people have realised this,

by getting a pcn,

the council is not making as much money as they used to,

so they're imposing resident permits everywhere to get money in.

 

All of this covered by fake consultations in which 90% of residents are apparently in favour of paying £100 to park in their street,

even in quiet cul de sac with no parking problems.

And we pay without complaints!